Feedback talk:Linsey Murdock

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[edit] Just trying to clarify things...

There's been some confusion about the Nundu Bay mission. A few people are un certain if it is actually happening or if it is a dream of Melonni. Some clarification would be appreciated. :)--Unendingfear 01:29, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure it's "real". She has nightmares that there is demons invading her village, and then they head to the village and OH GOD MY NIGHTMARES WERE TRUE D: :p. DarkNecrid 07:19, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

This is a tricky concept, we go there and nothing changes, then we enter the mission and BAM everything is changed. Based on Dreamer Raja's dialogue at the end of Heart or Mind: Ronjok in Danger question: "You will need this. There is only one way to end Melonni's torment. She must confront her nightmare head on and slay the Harbingers residing in her soul. If she does not, they will, through her, become real. Kormir has spoken to me of the thinning barrier between this world and the Realm of Torment. The threat of a direct attack on this world by Abaddon draws near." The nightmares are not yet real, but are soon to be. However, since the mission takes place after the quest (though not long after) it is a sticky subject. Though my bet is on the mission being a sweet little nightmare. Though how on Tyria we got into Melonni's dream is what I want to know... -- Konig/talk 08:35, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Looking at that quest dialogue again, I'm now suspecting that the "this" in question might be the answer - Dreamer Raja is offering some potion or other talismen to allow the heroes to go into Melonni's head and help her face her demons. ((Incidentally, I wonder if it's just coincidence that it's the Dervish having these dreams, given the profession of the Facet of Spirit?)) Draxynnic 04:54, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Hmm. I remember it like Konig says, but I'll have to check with Grubb on this one. - Linsey talk 06:53, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Mantra of Resolve

Hi Linsey, I just wanted to ask since this wasn't really addressed in the dev update. It seemed like most of the reasoning for the MoR nerf was related to PvP play. If that is the case, why didn't the team split the skill into PvP and PvE versions? Thanks very much for any response you can give in this regard. (Satanael | talk) 01:53, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

From the way I read it seems like most of the reasoning for the MoR nerf is because it causes problem for how the game (PvE & PvP) plays, but that's just me. DarkNecrid 03:04, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

I think it was how it had caused the game to play. Though, I wonder if the Warriors and even the Necromancers in PvE are being looked into. Just noticed a lot of them popping up lately. ♥ Ariyen ♀ 03:36, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

Caused the game to play... @.@ Anyway, they nerfed it cuz they think constant uptime protection from interrupts is baed. I dont think they should have hit it this hard however. I guess this was a skill they could change, but they did it completely wrong, not surprising. --adrin 07:01, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

"Second, by requiring the caster to use the skill right before casting a spell, we give enemies a chance to see that Mantra of Resolve is in effect. We didn't feel that it was reasonable for someone's interruption attempt to be countered by an invisible stance that was activated a full minute or more earlier." - That's pretty exclusively a pvp reason, the other two reasons (making the caster think and making the energy cost matter) are neither here nor there. (Satanael | talk) 13:30, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

If they wanted to make MoR more active, that would have been fine, but they didn't do anything except reduce the duration. The reason it has such a monstrous energy drain attached to it is because it lasted a long time; that was the cost of using it. If they wanted it to have such a high recharge and initial energy cost, they should have simply removed the energy loss mechanism altogether. At this point, a skill like Glyph of Concentration becomes obviously superior, since it costs less, recharges faster, and won't cost you 20 energy if there's a ranger too dumb to figure out what's going on near you. —Jette 16:25, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Okay, that's fine. I think we have had ample discussion about what should/could have been done here and elsewhere. I'm really just trying to see if Linsey is willing to answer my original question, so let's please leave it at this until Linsey says more. Thank you. (Satanael | talk) 22:08, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

A month ago (or 2)... I wanted to know why Finale of Resto and Dway-Touch didn't get a PvE Split. Lin never formally "addressed" that either. But this month we all got an answer anyway. Boon'ing a stance in PvE that already had half a dozen other similar skills that will just replace it anyway, seems like a dumb thing to get too worked up about and as such I expect you won't be getting a formal explanation beyond what Regina already posted. ...they obviously don't like repeating themselves... --ilr 22:58, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Today, in PvE, this skill was changed back to it's prior status, the question I have: Why? ~~000.00.00.00~~ 07:55, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Farmer RAEG?... Now where's the PVE revert for my Ruby Djinn's ONLY ATTACK? ...But I did totally call it though, no explanation whatsoever... Better luck next time Satanael! --ilr 08:07, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Pure speculation: They wanted to nerf it in both PvE and PvP (hence why it wasn't a PvP-only change in the first place), but didn't want to hit it as hard as it turned out in PvE, so rather than do a rush-job fiddling with the numbers, they reverted the PvE version until they can take a better look at it. That's my guess, anyway. - Tanetris 08:12, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Meh, the revert is an explanation in itself. I think the just didn't mean to nerf it for both, or there was some communication error or something like that. In other words, any explanation they would give would just be embarassing to admit publically (though most likely perfectly reasonable and innocent), so they just reverted and din't say anything. In any case, I'm happy now :-) (Satanael | talk) 16:56, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

If the nerf was originally intended to be PvP-only, the one-week delay wouldn't make sense. We've seen them push updates to fix similar mistakes the next day or occasionally even the same day. - Tanetris 18:27, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

2009.09.24 update fail. Big Epic Fail. (at least from Mantra perspective) --Boro 18:22, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Age

I have a very simple question, what is the average lifespan of the races in GW? You don't see a lot of old people, so it's safe to asume humans have a shorter lifespan than we have, but what about the Asura, Charr and Norn? Some Asura look younger than the others, but the Charr and Norn don't really look different in age to me. Do they have a longer lifespan? If so, is their lifespan long enough that we can expext the return of some important characters in GW2? Elemonk Nibo 05:53, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

the if so part about guild wars2 is better answered by Regina seeing as Linsey cant say anything regarding guild wars 2 though i asked her at pax if she was planing to add lore to tie guild wars 2 to guild wars 1 and she said she wants to and that it would be Awesome forgive me if i am miss quoting you it has been a few weeks since she said that.-- Zesbeer 10:01, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

Hm... let me guess:

• Humans usually live 36..100 years, depending on habits and habitat. Those that practice magic usually live longer.
• I won't expect Charr living more than 50 years, but in the style of orcs and klingon: because they usually die in battle first, XD.
• With those beards and size, Norn must live quite a bit more than humans, maybe about double the time.
• Being a race so linked to magic, Asura must live quite a lot, exposition to magic energies usually makes things live longer.
• And sylvary... they must live quite a lot, they are basically plants, aren't they?

I'll suppose that centaurs live a bit more than humans too, and that Forgotten ones must live VEEERY long lives... there are so many races... I wonder if they have some kind of 'lore notbook' where they put everything they have so far to avoid inconsistencies... will lifespan be there? MithTalk 12:43, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

It all sounds quite possible, but I still like to hear the official answer. There is little visible age difference in GW, except between children, adults and the few old people, mostly elders of a tribe or something, and the fact that a character from pre searing Ascalon still looks the same, even after the events of EotN (only 8 years, but still), which would make it assumable that there are less visible signs of aging in Gw than irl, however, that doesn't necesserarily mean that they have a different lifespan, it is possible that they use magic to reduce the signs of aging. However it is quite hard to make a good estimate of the age of all non-human races. For example, it is impossible to see any age difference between Dwarves (at least, to me), an example of a race that to me, seems like one that has a very long lifespan, even more after the whole turning into stone thing. And I know she probably can't answer about the return of important npcs in GW2, but that was'nt realy what I wanted to ask, so let me rephrase the question; are there races with a lifespan long enough that it would be possible that they survive until GW2, if they aren't killed before that? Elemonk Nibo 19:45, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

Though I don't recall where, I remember it being said that Vekk is called a young (not as in child, but young adult) Asura and is in the three digits of age. Though you don't ask for it, Dwarves and Centaurs seem to live about 200-300 years (Jalis is well beyond 100 years in Prophecies, and Ventari is really old in EN and dies nearly 100 years after EN). Humans that die of natural old age seem to live to 80-ish years on average (Kisu, Togo's, and Adelbern's ages are old *found in Proph/Fact manuscripts* and Adelbern lives to be about 90 and dies unnaturall, then there is good ol' King Doric who lived over 115 years). Norn is completely unknown, due to their life style, I doubt many live well beyond their prime years. Same goes with the Charr. Due to Pyre's grandcub being a warrior 40 years after EN, I'd have to guess Pyre was of a nice past prime years of age (possibly in his 30s or 40s?) or he and his cub got it on at young years. -- Konig/talk 01:03, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Edit: As for the "are there races with a lifespan long enough that it would be possible that they survive until GW2" - Centaurs, Dwarves, and possibly Asura (if I am correct on what I recall about Vekk - I wouldn't count on it). Go go Zhed, personal living mule of Joko. -- Konig/talk 01:05, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

[edit] New problem for rits...

You fixed the problem of rits needing a good build for PvE but the new problem is that role is limited to spirits. The problem there is simply everyone brings the same spirits, or there is very large overlap with core skills to justify bringing the character. The problem here is spirits destroy duplicates when created, making more than one rit effectively useless. Most groups bring spirits these days but they only bring one, leaving large numbers of ritualists queuing up in town unable to find a group.

Please allow duplicate spirits in PvE only. It's becoming difficult to find a group for z quests with a SoS rit and very difficult with any other build. Please also buff restoration to help rits alleviate the huuuuge monk shortage for z quests. 110.32.1.105 19:11, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Ritualists can deal weapon damage, etc. as well as heal still. I don't see a problem and I don't see it limited to spirits. I used my rit hero as a healer and without spirits, she did fine. ♥ Ariyen ♀ 19:34, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Did? :D - J.P.Talk 19:39, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Allowing duplicate spirits would be such a bad idea. Could you imagine a set of 2-3 Ritualists running the same build in the same spot? I remember when SoS and Ritualists got their buff and I was running mine in Underworld groups, and yes, everyone is running SoS builds and there is a lot of over-lap but Ritualists aren't limited to just spirits. Again, people are just flocking to the easiest way of playing something, el how almost every Sin is either, or asked to be, running as a Perma. More of a kick into Restoration, however, may not be unwarranted but I'd very much advise against allowing duplicate spirits to be viable within spirit range. ~~000.00.00.00~~ 20:14, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

I agree that duplicate spirits would be bad. There are multiple roles for ritualists in this game, just as there are multiple roles for every profession. If individuals are so rigid in what builds they will play that they can't find a compromise for multiple rits in a party they need to just play with h/h. -- Wyn talk 20:28, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

eh nothing is stopping people from greffing with mms so its the same thing with rits. they could just make the limit 2 of the same. Zesbeer 20:38, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Umm, wait a minute, why are you comparing minions to spirits? - Reanimated X 20:48, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

There are enough spirits avaliable to a Ritualist to make them viable if other people are doing the typical Channeling Spirit builds with Signet of Spirits as it's principal skill, again this just comes down to people wanting to run the latest 'in thing' all the time. I will generally run a Communing build if a Channeling build is in use. There's also Rit spikers, healers, party support. I'm shocked at how many people overlook the potential of a good WoQ Ritualist running with them. Rt/N with WoQ and BR, though quite a babysitting role, is useful. People just need to learn to play the profession instead of going to the gimmick, or wanting to increase it further. ~~000.00.00.00~~ 20:58, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

I believe that the spirits-kill-clones mechanism was a creative and well-implemented solution to spirit spamming and skill stacking. It's a shame the rest of the ritualist profession wasn't so well-thought-out. —Jette 21:00, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

When people are having an overlap problem they are either not communicating before setting out or (at least in my experience) are debating in an outpost over who gets to run Signet of Spirits. All they have to do is communicate. While one spirit spamming Channeler is very effective, one Channeler and one or two Communers are downright brutal. And people only have to sort out who does what... -- WarBlade 01:19, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

I agree with the general responses: The beauty of being a rit is that you are one of the more versatile hybrids. Not every profession can switch to spirit spamming, channeling striking, or restoration builds. If you group with another rit, simply ping each other builds and see if you can work off of each other. One can do Channeling Spirits, the other can do Communing. Or one can switch to Restoration and heal. Either way, you can help distribute the energy load by building off of each other (such as one person brings Painful Bond, while the other person brings Spirit's Gift with Signet of Spirits. You can also throw in some weapon spells into your builds.) There are a ton of possibilities and roles you can fill if you take a minute to innovate something new. --Rex 02:14, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Wait a minute, how is this ANY different from Paragon Shouts? This game was built very carefully around preventing the stacking of the same exact buffs/debuffs. And the main thing these spirits are doing, is dispensing exactly the kinds of things that shouldn't be stacking. If Rits get to Stack their buffs, then so should Paragons... And then some other class is gonna want to follow suit, and then another until everything is broken as hell and rits are right back to mediocrity again --ilr 03:03, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Argue the point all you want. The reality is people want to play their rits. People want to run SoS, and pugs want to bring SoS - but only one. The problem is rits have trouble getting into a group because duplicate spirits make them useless.

Guild Wars is a game. The players found a way to play a class they like, a way they like. There is something preventing many of these people from finding a group and it's not because their build is bad. There is a clear problem here. No-one wants to pay $100 to buy a game and then sit in town for 20-40 minutes waiting for someone to pick them of the field of rits out there, but that's currently what is happening.

Also, restoration rits can't hold a candle to PvE monks (or even PvP monks). There is a large monk shortage for ZQ. Please buff the PvE restoration line to give the rit the ability to compete with monks and fill the role of healer/prot alleviating to some extent the lack of healers for HM. I know it's possible to fill a monk spot with a rit with PuGs. I did so many times when ZQs were first introduced (it was the only way I was invited to PuGs prior to the spirits buff). It's a lot harder to play a healing rit with pugs - you will fail sometimes where a monk would have succeeded, and often you will be kicked because of it. Energy management is easy but time consuming (time is one of the most important resources for a healer in HM). Casting times are a lot slower especially compared with HB monks. Most viable builds - if not all - require spirits or bundles, which can take precious time to cast or weigh heavily on skill bar compression, not to mention down times of spirits being left behind or being forced to bring summon spirits. Monks have been buffed over the years to become more and more powerful - particularly after the release of HM. Players expect their healer to bring that kind of efficiency to the group, and even with a highly skilled restoration rit there is only so much you can do. 110.32.1.105 09:20, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

I highly disagree with the statement of "restoration rits can't hold a candle to PvE monks." It's not just the build, but the person behind it. Before the 3/4 sec spirit changes, the only role I was able to fill in PUGs on my Rit were healing spots, and though I didn't have fancy monks skills, I kept up. It was tough because everybody underestimated rit healers, everybody laughed at my Rt/Me build because it wasnt a PvX build, and in the end, most of the credit went to the monk with people saying "OMG! Great job monk for doing it solo!", as I cried to myself since I was the 2nd healer with no credit. Heck, I even have a Me/Rt healing build for when my groups lack a healer and I want to get credit on my mesmer, and I have healed places like Frostmaws just fine.

It's all about personal playstyle and your ability to play builds that work for you. I have a monk and have tried it, but I find my personal playstyle is a lot better attuned to building off of ashes, spirits, and weapon spells. My energy management is a lot better on my rit, and I make due with what resources are available.

I apologize that you have not grouped with better ritualists, but I think people in general need to open their eyes and look beyond the builds. Technically, a monk might look better on paper, but don't underestimate innovative builds and skill of the creator. Ritualists deserve much more respect than is given to them! I take pride in being a Rit, whether its spirits or resto, and even though I rarely get credit for doing a good job, at least I know I did my job efficiently and effectively. --Rex 16:35, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

LOL at people still puging. i hurd heroes are good if you give them good bars. Zesbeer 09:51, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Food for thought:

Spirit Bond, Shield of Absorption, Shield of Deflection, Patient Spirit, and Selfless Spirit were all cool in HM. How many of them have taken (hard) nerfs?

I understand that it's not central to the point you were trying to make; consider it an aside. is for Raine, etc. 10:08, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

You're frustated, this is clear. But the angle you're presenting is a broken concept, and the logic you are using is flawed. Pugs want SoS spammers, players want to be SoS spammer but that's not enough to justify for a change. Not to be rude but there's more to Guild Wars than Ritualists and there more to Ritualist than SoS spamming. The point you're expressing is more an issue with the players than with the functionality of Ritualist design, which isn't limited to SoS spammers yet that's another discussion.

Let's entertain the notion of removing the spirit limitation for a second, shall we? Since you've given no other information other than to just allow duplication I'll run just on that.

Could you actually imagine how devastating a team of 8 Ritualists would be if they could each run SoS spammer builds at the same, in the same spot within range of each other? I run an SoS build with 8 spirits, soloing places like NM UW (bar a few quests). Now if I could take 7 other Ritualists with 8 spirits each, that 64 spirits total. That's 64 ranged attacks of armor ignoring damage, even life stealing/healing, 50% damage reduction with Armor of Unfeeling, mass portability with Summon Spirits and the likes. Does that sound like a good idea? How is that balanced by any stretch of the imagination? Why would you want to play any other profession then? Even, what could stop that?

It's simple saying "allow this, allow that" but you're not giving any good reason to justify the change. There's no good, logical reasoning presented, because "just because people want to play this" or "it's a game" are not justifible reasons.

I don't want to seem like I'm attacking you, I'm not. I'm more wanting you to actually present the idea beyond simply "allow duplicate spirits in PvE only" because that allows my example above, and that's an absolutely horrid idea. ~~000.00.00.00~~ 10:30, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Additionally, there's a Feedback space perfect for this kind of thing. ~~000.00.00.00~~ 10:45, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

tl;dr more than one Rit running the same 5/6/7 spirits would be so op. What did you expect the comunity to favour with the buff? Just have one Rit run SoS with channeling spirits and another run SoGM and communing ones. --smøni 17:00, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

There are 10 professions, you don't need more than one ritualist in a team, 8 spirit spammers with 6..8 spirits each would be overkill. And don't get me wrong, I do love my Channelling/Spawning Power spirit spammer builds (that works way better than the puny channeling/communing I see way too often) but I don't see why should the entire party be composed of that. I can deal with all melee fighters and some casters myself alone with that build, so it's better if the party brings other things, like healing and things to deal with enemy healers. MithTalk 16:57, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

As a comment: I've ran multiple Ritualists while hero-henching. SoS is the obvious one, but if you want to spam offensive spirits and someone's already running SoS, there's Signet of Ghostly Might. Or if that doesn't work, you can use something like the old ritlord build with Armor of Unfeeling. Finally, in my experience, the healing Rit does still see a decent amount of play. Ritualists still stack, it's just that you only get the near-automatic shoe-in of SoS once per party. Many professions don't even have that. Draxynnic 05:30, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Why should dedicated players have to open their wallets everytime something good happens in Guild Wars?

Why should we buy a game to get a pair of wings on Guild Wars?<---£35 Why should we pay to change our name on Guild Wars? <---- £8 Why should we pay to change our appearance on Guild Wars? <---£5

Do you value your players? -Or do you value your income?

Why should be wait for Guild Wars 2 when it's been almost 3 years in development? Why do you constantly nerf Necromancers even though they never get Buffs(, and when they do they are STUPID)? Why are professions imbalanced? Why don't you break the mould and try something >NEW< in Guild Wars 1 Development, instead of quests and Zoo's for stupid pets?

Ask yourself a few of these questions before making stupid ideas. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:87.115.94.1 (talk).

You don't pay a monthly fee, why should they give you anything for free?

Most games the size and scope of GW2 take 5-8 years to design and develop and you are complaining about waiting 3?

Necromancers haven't been targeted any harder than any other profession. If you think you could do better balancing, get a job with a game company, and try it for yourself. No one can please everyone all of the time, and some people can't be pleased no matter what you do. -- Wyn talk 16:09, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Of course they value their income, it's only natural; they have to live from it after all. As Wyn said, for other games you have to pay monthly and you often don't have an option to change such things there.. Also on GW2, really nobody forces you to wait; I have heard this argument so many times before, that "players will go away if ANet doesn't hurry" and such, but that is just crap. GW2 is not made only for GW1 players, so yes, go away and do something else. I'm sure ANet will be able to get enough attention when GW2 is ready that you will probably come back anyway... poke | talk 16:31, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Most players are patient, You should see how many millions of players are still waiting for Duke Nukem Forever -Talamare- feedback 16:34, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

The average sub game is $15/mo, meaning $180/yr. Even if you buy a year sub with a discount, its roughly $150/yr. Just from that $150, you can buy GW Trilogy, GW:EN, all 4 skill unlock packs, item unlock pack for PvP, and have everything ready to jump in both PvE and PvP as a newcomer with not having to pay anything else for the rest of your GW1 career unless you really want to. In addition, ArenaNet does not put advertisements everywhere, run shady background applications, nor do they sell your personal information. You'd have a tough time finding another online RPG that can compete on an AAA level with this cheap of a deal. In addition, the money you spend on GW will only help further support ArenaNet and their work on GW2. Marketing has done a good job at making things as affordable as possible while keeping their company healthy (people have to get paid, you know?), and the rest of ArenaNet has done an AMAZING job in developing a title that is worth so much more than it actually costs. I know I have bought things on impulse just because I feel like the company deserves more money, and I know plenty of friends who don't mind buying character slots and other luxury items just because they have done the same budget calculations.

As far as GW2 development goes, not only does it take a long time for games to develop from scratch, you have to be careful of the timing of releasing information and launching the game to make sure you title can overcome competition as well as keep up the state of the industry and economy. Many other MMO developers have failed to avoid overhype, have smooth launches, realize people dont play Betas to fix games but to use them as trials to see if they want to buy it, or even produce enough balanced content to keep people happy for longer than a month. Patience is a great skill to have, and utilizing it makes it more rewarding in the end (and a heck of a lot less stressful). --Rex 16:57, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Very well spoken, completely /agree -- in fact were ripping anet from a lot of money, I wouldn't really complain about guild wars being expensive C4K3 Talk 17:02, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Here's why: you don't. Those wings are completely optional and look pretty bad anyways. You don't get a name change because you picked a good name in the first place. You don't get an appearance change because you picked a good enough appearance in the first place. They care about both players & income, they're a business. You should wait for GW2 because almost every game is in development for 2+ years....MMOs even more so. Necromancers are pretty much the best class in PvE and are completely degenerate in PvP, they kinda need nerfs. Because apparently balancing 1000+ skills across 10 professions is pretty hard. Yeah I agree, they definitely need to do a content update that really shakes up Guild Wars - possibly by removing some old gametypes and adding in a new one that the community really likes, etc. That'd be a great idea. 17:11, 24 September 2009 (UTC) --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:DarkNecrid (talk).

@87.115.94.1 : 1) I don't think people paid a pre order of Aion and/or Aion CE just only because of the wings you can get into GW. It's more a way to promote a game inside another like some songs you hear titles or the name or the artist inside the song. 2) Most GW upgrades, especially the ones in the online store - and except the chapters or addons - are pretty optional, the unlock packs, cosmetics changes, renaming... etc. 3) Years ago, you would have said it wasn't possible to change your toon name, appearance and even gender. Now it is possible and yeah it needs a small fee, which is and has a misery cost vs the time you could have spent redoing the same toon to get the same result. 4) For the updates feedback, skils and such + new ideas, the Wiki people done a tremendous work about Feedback areas, so we can all post feedback for both "GW1" and GW2. Feel free to add materials comparisons with games of the same kind (=no monthly fees) when you post your comment about the price of the optional and not needed packs to play the game.

Things aren't free, it's the same in real life and even sometimes, if you feel Anet people done things not the way every single people would have expect... i'm pretty sure visiting them and seing them working with the means they have for "GW1", keeping courage, braving all negativity and rants would be something that might force respect to most people criticizing things that can't be compared. Of course, things can't be perfect plus free, but GW is still very special unlike all other games of the same type or in the veins of pure MMO style, it forces respect for what Anet have done so far, for a game with no monthly fee concept. Sorry if i said things a bid redundant to what was said before, just giving a view of GW from someone playing GW since 2005. Davor Belegnaur 18:23, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

This...belongs...elsewhere --ilr 21:24, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Short answer? Because it's better than opening your wallet even when nothing good happens in a subscription game. Draxynnic 05:36, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

But it's worse than opening your wallet for crap in GW when subscription games like WoW get actual content added every few months. -Auron 02:51, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

If you think it's crap, don't open your wallet. I don't think I've bought anything GW-related since EOTN came out (and was bundled with the BMP if you bought it in the online store), and I don't feel in any way disadvantaged by it. In that time, we've had a few updates - not stupendously huge ones, but updates nonetheless, and ones I know I've had fun with - for free, let alone having to fork out another US$360+ for the privilige of logging on to the servers. Draxynnic 01:23, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] "Bimonthly"

This word is ambiguous, as it can mean bimestrial, "once every two months," or semimonthly, "twice a month." I avoid it entirely for that reason. In regards to the new skill update schedule, which do you mean: once every 2 months, or twice a month? I hope it is the latter on the basis that in order to restore balance, small, frequent tweaks are needed, rather than massive overhauls that often introduce more bugs & problems than they fix. —Jette 08:27, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Quoth the journal: "We’re going to slow things down by switching to a longer development cycle for each skill balance. We'll be shooting for a skill balance every other month instead of every month." (emphasises emphases added) - Tanetris 08:34, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

That would be "emphases." Thanks though. —Jette 08:51, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Actually it would be "emphasis"...(Satanael | talk) 16:52, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Eeez funneh cuz eet goes both ways... hoo ho hooooo --ilr 08:40, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

This made me lol. Thank you. ~~000.00.00.00~~ 01:53, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

Fear not Jette, they will show us what will be updated prior so we can tell them NO!--98.238.169.189 19:01, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

[edit] update date moved back?

just a quick question as the date for the winners of the hencmne contest has been moved to the 1st of octber, does that mean the big PVP update will be moved back onto that day as well?--Thedreadlordpie 17:19, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

we dont even have a date for it to start with so i dont see how it could be pushed back for a date we don't even have.- Zesbeer 02:21, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

Yes, the update is coming out 2 weeks after "whenever they want to." ~Shard 02:50, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

the thing that i love is that we have very little to no info about what to expect from this update besides no more heroes in ha and gvg and no more hb or ta and sealed deck but we know almost nothing about how sealed deck is going to work (though i know that they are going to change the skills in sealed deck weekly from pax09) forgot to add that we will probably see some new content for Halloween ie quests.- Zesbeer 03:24, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

it was said that the update will be after the setember torment at the end of the mounth that was the date i was goin on.--Thedreadlordpie 07:13, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

The hero skill bar deal end date was moved to Oct. 1st, so sometime after that probably. DarkNecrid 07:34, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

Have they updated their Facebook and Twitter pages, I don't take either place serious enough to actually register with them so I don't know myself. ~~000.00.00.00~~ 23:41, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

Ugggghh I hope that isn't true about weekly sealed deck rotations. That won't help ANYTHING. 218.214.126.215 08:24, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

i don't see how weekly skill rotations for sealed deck isn't going to help anything. it will keep the format fresh. what i don't get or understand is; how they are going to even out the skills for professions that dont have as many ie rit sin derv and para.- Zesbeer 09:00, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

They don't. DarkNecrid 09:43, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Wintersday content

It was mentioned that the Live Team wants to add new content to Wintersday. That's cool, but does that include adding to the Gwen/Thackeray story arc? Because it's fine as it is now. Not everyone likes the pairing, after all. Some do, some don't. The way the characters' interactions are currently shown, it's ambiguous enough that it could be seen either way, either the beginning of a romance or just the act of a concerned friend. By leaving it as is and not giving any sort of definitive resolution to the story arc, both those who like the pairing and those who don't can be happy, as they can each interpret their interactions the way they want to see them. While it's fairly obvious that Thackeray probably likes her in either instance, it doesn't necessarily follow that such feelings would be returned (in Factions, for instance, one of the Kurzick henchmen likes Danika, but she never even mentions him once through the entire game, so it's likely a one-sided attraction). It could go either way, depending on how you choose to see things there. Not everything in GW lore needs to be explained and resolved, as many players like to determine for themselves in their own minds what happens or what things are like. This is one such case where that should be allowed, simply by not adding anything further to this story arc. I realize I put a suggestion in the space about this, but though I've let it sit for weeks, there's been no comment and I'd like to hear what Linsey has to say about it. --Nathe 12:57, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

I doubt Linsey is going to reveal what the new content is going to be, surprise is most of the fun. -- Wyn talk 13:00, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Wasn't this suggestion also entered into the feedback area.. If so, what is it doing here as well? Anon-e-mouse 13:38, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Echo... echo... echo .... echo ~~000.00.00.00~~ 13:41, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

I explained already, it's there, but there's been no discussion at all the several weeks since I put it up there. And I wanted to get it to Linsey's attention before she and the rest of the team started working on the new WD content, which would likely start just after Halloween, only a month away. Sorry for the redundancy. And Wyn, I understand, I was just hoping for a simple yes/no on the matter from her, is all, nothing too much into what they're planning for the new stuff as a whole. --Nathe 15:28, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

There's probably a reason there's been no discussion. No one else cares whether Gwen and Thackery have a once in a lifetime love match, a torrid romance, or a tawdry tryst. -- Wyn talk 16:57, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

You've asked every single GW player in existence, then, Wyn? Because that is the only way you can say "no one else." Again you misunderstand me. Some people want them together, others don't. Leaving things as they are now keeps both groups happy, since there's no definitive answer given either way. And that's how it should stay. And incidentally, it requires no action on the Live Team's part at all, just a decision to not act on this story arc. --Nathe 19:37, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

By "no one else," I, as a human of average intelligence, was able to garner that Wyn meant "a very small minority." She employed a technique known as hyperbole. I suggest you do your best to interpret such phrases from known on, lest you look like a trolling asshole. ··· Danny Pew Pew 19:52, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

^ —Jette 20:28, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Don't worry, Wyn's an effin calculator, with a built in spell check and other tools for statistical information. ~~000.00.00.00~~ 20:48, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

You turned her into firefox? —Jette 20:54, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

There's no way to verify her claim, though, so it's meaningless. And you missed the fact that I was deliberately exaggerating in my previous post to make that statement, Jette. --Nathe 00:29, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Oh and incidentally, how did Thackeray even know what Gwen's symbol was in the first place, Linsey? He never knew her before she joined the Vanguard. He didn't know her in pre-Searing Ascalon. He was never there. So how could he have found out what her symbol was? --Nathe 18:29, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Red Resign Day & Commander Title

Dear Linsey,

I assume that Anet knows about Red Resign Day when Zquests are farmed by players for Commander title points and loads of gold. However, I have also learned that the Commander title will remain once HB gets removed. Am I correct in my assumption that the Commander title in the Hall of Monuments won't result in anything extra for Guild Wars 2, as this would result in people breaking the rules (ladder manipulation) getting a reward? Also, what about players who haven't earned enough points for HoM display yet...would they be left out of a reward in favor of the farmers? 145.94.74.23 20:36, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Things like "red resign day" are why I hate the GW playerbase. I hope GW2 attracts a crowd that plays for fun instead of "profit," whatever that's supposed to mean in a simulated world. —Jette 20:38, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

"won't result in anything extra for Guild Wars 2, as this would result in people breaking the rules (ladder manipulation) getting a reward?" -- The title itself is enough for some... Humans will cheat at anything and everything even if it only adds a centimeter to their E-Peens. --ilr 22:02, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

(Edit conflict) Someone, I'm sure, will post the link after me, but it's been stated that both the Commander title and the new Sealed Deck title will contribute to the same "bonus" in Guild Wars 2. In other words, if you don't plan on playing Sealed Deck but already have the HB title, you do get some benefit, but not a whole lot. ··· Danny Pew Pew 21:11, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

@jette LOL hb will never = fun. thus red resign. also ""# Gaining points in the Commander title will no longer be possible. You’ll still be able to display it, and it will count in the Hall of Monuments and towards the Kind of a Big Deal title track. "" and "There will be a new title for this new format. This title will be the counterpart of the Commander title; either will satisfy a single requirement towards the Hall of Monuments and the Kind of a Big Deal title track, but not both at once. It’s a one-or-the-other kind of thing."- Zesbeer 21:21, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

I think Jette was talking about GW2 being fun, not HB. Mediggo 07:36, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

yes i know he is but he is saying that hb should be fun and that's just not possible with the way it is right now. personally i cant wait for sealed deck to come out.- Zesbeer 08:51, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

I quote: "Things like "red resign day" are why I hate the GW playerbase. I hope GW2 attracts a crowd that plays for fun instead of "profit," whatever that's supposed to mean in a simulated world." This wont change in GW2, you should play a MMO that has a monthly fee because there are a lot of kids who can't pay that or have parents who refuse to pay for them. (Ate of DK 15:57, 3 October 2009 (UTC)).

Do you know how many teenage lusers play WoW? That costs $14.99 a month and it's still full of asshats. Granted, anyone with a functioning frontal lobe would use a private server, which is free, but even those are full of morons. The fee would need to be monumental in order to prevent stupid kiddies from getting in. —Jette 16:05, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Henchman Contest

Fail at determining which builds are original. oops someone was faster than me --Boro 06:19, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

People honestly expected original builds to come from this? How long has this game existed with all it's skills? You think any build people come up with would be truly original after all this time? ~~000.00.00.00~~ 06:36, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

To keep discussion on track and hopefully civil, I would urge Linsey to remember the original purpose of removing heroes - to get AI abuse of certain skills out of PvP. If you remove heroes, but put in henchmen with the exact same skills, they're going to be abused just as the heroes were, and you in essence did a lot of work for nothing. To give a quick summary, henchmen/heroes should never have 1. interrupts, 2. a bar full of hexes, or 3. enchantment removal. The reasoning for each is obvious so I won't bother getting into it here. -Auron 06:43, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

I would say in favor of a-net that they were logic to come up with the most commonly used bars for heros. Yseron - 90.15.190.203 06:58, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

If the reason was to stop people abusing 4 interrupts at once and bars full of hexes then its not in anets favor. It was a work for nothing. --Boro 07:07, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Well all I know is that my builds were original. Original builds are possible, and can still be good. >_> And Yseron, that makes no sense, seeing how the point is to remove the desire of heroes thus, having common hero builds would be absolutely pointless on the henchmen. I honestly think this is the first time I'm saddened by Anet. I wasn't expecting to win, but couldn't they have at least half the bars be original? And on that, not have 3 rangers and elementalists per PvP form? I was expecting 2 of every profession, to be honest... (done ranting) -- Konig/talk 07:10, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

The results are definitely rather 'interesting', but overall, the winners won, and congrats to them. Personally, I loved this contest because it made me dig deep down and analyze innovative ways to make risky builds of skills (that are perceived to be subpar) work together to make them shine. It would have been neat if the rewards were less permanent, and the henchmen changed every so often with each major update, allowing the community to continue submitting new builds and showing their creativity, but this was probably a VERY intense contest to hold. I hope some people post their submitted builds on their personal wikipages (I posted mine on my page), as I think it would be interesting to see other people's original builds and maybe even learn new tricks off of them. --Rex 07:25, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

I was not expecting this contest to be such a useless waste of time and resources. If you want a reason (trust me, you do) to scrap the builds that won, I've compiled links to where most of them were stolen from here. I've made a very easy to read list of builds not to accept here, but it's pretty much the same stuff Auron already listed. ~Shard 07:27, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

i loled and didn't even enter the contest because i knew what the out come would be (this) and that whatever bars i did submit would be nerffed before they got into the game or would get nerffed somewhere down the line. also because i was at pax09 and then gone before and after that. forgot to add that the ai dosnt know how to use 90% of the skills in this game.- Zesbeer 08:46, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Conspiracy theory from Shard. Surprising. Try Obs sometime to see where they're actually from. Same place PvXwiki got them, btw. Backsword 08:52, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

well the point he is making is valid then. the builds are not original at all.- Zesbeer 08:54, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Expecting the winning builds to be original and both good and usable by the NPC AI was setting yourself up for a dissapointment. Anyone who's ever played GWs for more than a trivial amount of time would know that, more so if they had played with heroes in that time. Expecting the winning builds to be original and bad or unusable by heroes was just wishful thinking from people who don't want NPCs in PvP (rightly so, btw). The best you could have reasonably expected from this was a collection of slightly modified bars which are/were meta (some of which not even usable properly by the AI loldevhammerthatcantqknock) and maybe 1 or 2 that were original but, at best, mediocre in terms of competitive standard. Don't be surprised that's what showed up. Feel free to keep complaining that the winners weren't even remotely original, though. That really was a silly criteria to put on the contest if you weren't going to keep to it even if it meant henchmen with sub-par builds. Mr J 10:36, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

It's possible to give Henchmen bars that are not overpowered, yet they will actually use very "functionally"... granted it does require a lot of testing but anyone who's atleast used the henchmen in EotN can see what a good "functional" Henchmen bar looks like. Ironically enough, PvE is actually the best place to *TEST* which skills they use most and in which order. Often times the skills they use most effectively are not even used in gimmicky player builds... therefore the criteria for judging this contest is clearly flawed --ilr 11:11, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

It certainly is. I never said it impossible, just unrealistic. The "original" criteria was mainly flawed because ANet doesn't design competitive team builds. There's not many people who play GWs, in fact, who could look through hundreds or thousands of pseudo-random submissions and work out a collection of bars that work really well together, alone, and in a variety of popular PvP teams. Because that's what they need to do to be fit for purpose; they must be a good solo substitute and a good compound substitute in what people are running. So what you got was unoriginal (or classic, take your pick) bars that work well enough that they were present in a variety of past metas. Mr J 12:00, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

pffffff........... how epic fail is this..... i'm seriously considering uninstalling right now.... go to pvx copy paste random code, you win 500000 ectos in the form of a rare tonic and a special henchman named after you! seriously... I expected a bit more from you linsey... - Wuhy 14:18, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

I feel ANet has lied to us and wasted our time with this contest. The rules of the contest clearly stated that builds submitted must be original, and what we got was a bunch of meta builds, many of which seem to be duplicates of builds heroes are currently running. The results could have been essentially duplicated had ANet simply gone to PvXwiki and picked builds from the database there and handed out everlasting henchmen tonics to players at random.

To those who claim there are no original builds left: This is quite untrue, due to the lowered expectations of quality we have learned to expect from henchmen over the past three years. I submitted, I believe, a warrior build with Winter's Embrace and Crippling Slash. The rest of the bar was filled out with less than optimal skills (Body Blow instead of Savage Slash, no Conjure Water, stuff like that). It's an original build and it has the level of quality one has come to expect from henchmen (slightly improved because builds such as Talon Silverwing's cripslash build simply don't cut it in PvP).

-- Armond Warblade{{Bacon}} 14:23, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Well, I'm glad I spent my time trying to come up with original builds that the AI would run well, rather than just copying and pasting the builds on PvX so I might have a chance at winning........OH WAIT! Nvm, apparently all I needed to do was copy and paste the builds from PvX or from my meta folder in-game. Thanks Anet!!! (dumbfucking liars). Karate Jesus 14:56, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, can't find anything original from any of those builds. - J.P.Talk 15:03, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Category:Users who think ArenaNet is terrible gogo - Wuhy 15:04, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Please 75.61.32 keep a little more civil. We all agree that this contest was a failure beyond epicness, a waste of time, both of the players and the developers, a time which could have been spent to actually improve the game. Now the developers have two choices.

• A: Use the current winner bars. - If Anet chooses this option, they will still face the very same problem of AI abusing hexes, interrupts and enchantment removal. This will leave them with the only option of changing hero AI, with the contest wasted.
• B: Trash the PvX copy paste builds and choose original ones. Don't chose 4 interrupts or 3enchantment removals because they will either be abused or unused at all This will solve the current problems.

Its your choice Linsey --Boro 15:07, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

People,Get your sticks and torches and cookies.Yes lots of cookies ! No raging at linsey without cookies! Now seriously linsey this is the worst thing you guy's have done in a while.To be honest thats quite a prestation.Lilondra *poke* 15:08, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

I'm disappointed that there are fewer builds for non-core classes, especially Rit and Sin. Manifold 15:13, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Let's not blame this solely on Linsey. Technically, the whole Live team chose these Meta builds that in no way followed their own contest guidelines. So, let's be pissed at all of them instead. :D Karate Jesus 15:14, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

That would require me to use more braincells then the average anet employee.No thx raging at linsey is enough Lilondra *poke* 15:15, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Keep the discussion on-topic and away from personal attacks - Lilondra has been blocked for it and a few others are only about a post away from following.

Yes, it's obvious that anyone interested in PvP had a huge letdown with the results of this contest. Anyone that entered following the rules of "originality" was similarly let down. ANet, however, should know this by now - the guru thread and this thread make no bones about it. We should just wait to see what their response is. Hopefully they see the errors they've made so far with this contest and backtrack a bit before making an even bigger mistake by actually putting it into the game :< -Auron 15:18, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Well, I'll try to keep off the block list, but I will say this. I don't think they can backtrack at this point. They're kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place. If they actually implement these in-game, they're just going to cause the same problems (hopefully they know that by now) and make plenty of people mad for not obeying their own contest. However, if they don't implement them, then they have to take away the awards from the winners who have already been announced, which is unethical. Tbh, I think they're stuck....but that's what happens when you make stupid decisions. Karate Jesus 15:24, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Do they care about ethics? Do they care about anything at this point? - Wuhy 15:34, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

BTW if they really care about the game they will change the winners and/or bars. --Boro 15:36, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

I think at this point they're stuck with unethical options. Probably their best option would be to keep the winners and change the bars (essentially screwing both sides, but not as badly as all their other options). Man....I would not want to be them right now. Then again, if I were them, I probably wouldn't have made these poor of choices in the first place. Karate Jesus 15:40, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

did you see the dual falling faceroll sin bar btw? neither hero nor hench ai use falling spider/falling lotus strike EVER (quote from the Hero behavior article: "Heroes do not seem to use Falling Lotus Strike or Falling Spider on their own.") - Wuhy 15:43, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Tbh, I did see it, but it's not as lulzy as the Prage build (lol AI doesn't know how to cancel stance) and the MB Distortion ele (didn't they acknowledge that they disliked this build?). Oh well.... Karate Jesus 15:45, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

btw, keep the winners? you want to give random retards from pvx 25k ectos and name hench after them? i don't, they don't deserve it. - Wuhy 15:46, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Simply keeping this set of winners is an ethical problem. --Boro 15:49, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Exactly my point. They have no ethical solutions now. They've already announced the winners and can't go back on that, without being seen as being incredibly unfair. However, they also can't keep the same bars and be ethical either. Like I said, I don't agree with what happened, and I definitely think they made terrible decisions leading them to this hole; however, I think their best option now is to keep the winners (which sucks, but it's the most ethical thing to do) and get new bars (also the most ethical thing to do, but essentially not giving rewards to the correct people).

They could re-do the contest; however, I would really advise against that at this point. They've already messed up badly enough. Karate Jesus 15:52, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

last time i was this disappointed with anet was when eotn came out(pve skills cons GRINDEM) - Wuhy 15:56, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

BAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWW. Seriously, the same people saying the same thing 15 times is not going to convince them more. You've said your piece, move on. If you have something new, interesting and relevant to say, by all means, go ahead, but if they haven't heard what people have to say by now, they won't ever. Misery 16:11, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Rolol Lololol > Zhed Shadowhoof imo. --Cursed Angel 16:44, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Original interpretation of the word original. Next time, don't ask people for entering a contest and copy PvX directly - it saves your resources for better stuff. Ɲoɕʈɋɽɕɧ 16:55, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

I'm afraid that "No Anet employee that looked at them had seem them before" doesn't qualify as "original". ANet employees have access to PvX as any other player has, and sites like that should have been one of the first things to check before disqualifying builds. But now... nothing like cheaters getting away with it to believe a little bit more in humankind. They disqualified someone in one art contests, didn't they? This shouldn't be different. MithTalk 17:23, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

tl;dr'd this entire thing because I just wanted to express how deeply disappointed and sad I was to see that there was no AoD hero chosen. :< ··· Danny Pew Pew 17:49, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

---

Though it's true that the bars they chose are somewhat disappointing and unoriginal, you forget one advantage of this replacement, which is that neither skills nor heroes were universal to all PvPers, which frankly wasn't fair. Now, unfair AI or not, everyone gets it; the field is level. By the by, for those of you decrying replacing the heroes with henchmen as opposed to, say, nothing: the time to make such a complaint was when the program was announced, not when the results were announced. | 72 {U|T|C} 19:14, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

I'm sorry; how were neither skills nor heroes universal? 90% of PvPers are UAX. Also, yes, those complaints were made at the contest's announcement (and have been made for quite some time before then). -- Armond Warblade{{Bacon}} 19:24, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

now after this huge wall of texts i feel a few things need to be said one is i am not suprised at the reslutets of the contest. the other they said most of the bars were war and monk bars and 2 they said that most of the bars didnt have an elite. with that being said i already knew that the bars that were going to come out of this contest were going to be crapy meta also i had enough forsite to see that 90% of the player base dont know how to play i mean when i talked to linsey she told me that most players dont even change ther hero skill bar from the starting bar.- Zesbeer 20:00, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

---

Tl dr - Anyone going to comment on how stupid AI is with frenzy? -Talamare- feedback 20:46, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

<sitting reading comments> I wish I could bitch, but I was in one of the countries removed from entry. -.-  :P ~~000.00.00.00~~ 21:28, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Lol at this "contest". What a waste of time and resources. Let me guess: you guys were so busy with the henchmen skillbar contest that your next update will be delayed yet again? Friendly piece of advice: managing your priorities properly can lead to successful projects. 209.89.252.164 04:22, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

---

My view on the contest results: LOLWUT.

Why? Because quite frankly, this type of result was inevitable, due to each and every fail skill update since Factions was released. ArenaNet has painted the playerbase and themselves into a corner because broken OP skills were added (Searing Flames/Shadow Form/Wounding Strike/Lingering Curse/Wail of Doom) and rarely addressed properly, and UP skills that have been around forever, have never have gotten fixed. So, now everyone is stuck with gimmicky crud because there is no viable way to be useful outside of gimmicky meta-builds. There is no such thing as 'balanced' anymore, it went out with the dodo back in 2006. -thejynxed- 03:51, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Dear Linsey,

I have to say don't write letters very often; I prefer to post an angry wall-of-text NPA rant to explicate my point. I feel that might be poorly received and perhaps unjustified here, however, so please bear with me and my ponderous, lackadaisical writing style.

When I first heard that you were removing heroes from PvP, I was overjoyed -- I thought it might be the first step on a long road towards making the game playable again. When I heard that you were replacing them with improved henchmen, I was a bit less overjoyed than before, but I thought it was understandable, since not being able to play competitively without an entirely human team is unrealistic in a four-year-old game. But when I heard you were letting players pick the skills, I knew right then and there it would be a catastrophe.

From what I've seen, Linsey, I don't think you're anywhere near as bitter, cynical or genereally misanthropic as I am. That's probably a good trait to have, it generally means you'll live a longer, more fulfilling life and are much less likely to, for example, get fired for being an ass to fans. As such, I don't think it's in your nature to despise the majority of the playerbase the way I do; after all, they're playing your game. I do have to tell you, though, that both from the perspective of someone like me and from the perspective of other, much friendlier people, the Guild Wars playerbase is, by and large, pretty terrible in every sense of the word. They embody everything that is bad about online gaming: immaturity, barbaric manners, universal disrespectfulness, a complete lack of understanding of what a game is supposed to be about. A game is supposed to be about having fun, as I was led to believe. From wikipedia: "a game is a structured activity, usually undertaken for enjoyment and sometimes used as an educational tool. Games are distinct from work, which is usually carried out for remuneration, and from art, which is more concerned with the expression of ideas." Ergo, unless Guild Wars is an extremely well-disguised exercise in game theory, it is to be assumed the point was originally to enjoy the game.

But you can't enjoy Guild Wars by playing. In my experience, you can't enjoy it at all anymore, but for the sake of argument, we'll assume that some degree of satisfaction can be extracted through hours spent at the screen. But where does it come from? Let's review the most popular activities in-game:

• Farming. This is #1 on the list, sadly. And "farming" essentially means "600/smite" or "shadow form," meaning that 8 out of eleven farmers will be shadow form assassins, 2 will be monks, and the last will be a necromancer, who is only needed for one area. Assuming professions distribution is equal, this excludes at least 70% of players from the biggest part of the game. In reality, most serious PvE players (lol) have deleted all of their characters except one or two -- their GWAMM character, their assassin, and their mules. What are these players farming for? Overpriced minipets, of course. That's all that's left, basically. Overpriced minipets and impossibly rare weapons. There are, what? Less than 24 Kanaxais in the game? What were you thinking when you did that? Why do you guys, ANet, as a company, choose to waste valuable resources on an aspect of the game that less than 24 people will be able to enjoy? How is that fair to the players who don't want to spend thousands of hours accumulating literally tens of millions of gold (one Island Guardian went for 55,000 globs of ectoplasm, traded through the use of armbraces of truth)? I'm going to drop this subject and leave it alone, now, because I don't expect you to introduce new versions of the ultra-rare minis, nor do I expect you to handle the economy -- it wouldn't be a massive improvement to the game but would require a lot of work. It is a bit ridiculous, though.
• PvP. After farming, PvP is pretty prevalent, which makes sense for a game "designed from the ground up to be a competitive PvP game" or something to that effect. But players don't PvP for fun, you see. No, even here, 99% of the players who PvP are farming. They want a title. That's it. They don't PvP for fun. To me this doesn't even make sense -- I'd always assumed the idea of playing a game was to enjoy it, not to achieve a title. Even the most competitive of Olympic medalists got there because ultimately they loved the sport they were participating in, not because they were trying to show off. Having a gold trim to brag about or a tiger to hit X really fast with are both fun, but they're just not what the game is about: you're supposed to have fun, but from the attitudes of players who farm for PvP titles all day long -- both from the in-game chat and their detestably high-pitched voices in vent -- I can gather that they are not enjoying the game they play.
• Missions/Vanquishing/etc. These do not happen, except as Zaishen quests. On the rare occasion someone does want to do a mission, it is done alone -- usually with 3 necromancer heroes running the same stupid Discord build and 4 other henchmen who aren't actually important. Aren't you supposed to play with people in a massively multiplayer online game?

To keep this from turning into a rant, assuming it doesn't already look like one, I'm going to stop there. I'm going to finish this with the following plea that, though I cannot speak for anyone but myself, I believe reflects the opinion of the majority of the PvP community and original fans of the formerly great game Guild Wars. It's a simple set of instructions that I sincerely hope you will follow.

• Remove heroes from PvP.
• Don't replace them with new henchmen.

That's it. I said it was simple. I know you have the resources to do this, since you've already spent time getting ready to pull the plug on heroes. If you must, you can give the new tonics to the players who "won" (though it was more of a lottery, let's face it), but I really don't think you should. But that, along with the comments expressed above, is merely my opinion and such matters are, of course, up to you. Still, you will find many of the old players returning to Guild Wars with this minor adjustment. For that matter, you might find many old PvE players return if you give them something to do, and remove heroes from PvE as well, though I feel that would be too drastic a change to implement at once, and would require significant resources devoted to creating new areas.

Sincerely,

–Jette 18:48, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

P.S. While I'm here, I'd like to direct your attention to my question about devourerers, above. P.S.S. This is a letter to Linsey. I realize this page gets more traffic than the main page, but it'd be nice if she didn't have to wade through 20 other walls of text just to reply. You're all welcome to comment, just don't... y'know... bitch and moan. Oh yeah, almost forgot.
tl;dr new henchmen are gay ban them.

I could be terribly wrong, but I'd imagine that most of the Guild Wars PvE player base is casual gamers who aren't necessarily around to grind out titles, but just hop in, grab an H/H team, and go about doing whatever they haven't done yet. That's exactly how I used to play, and that's how the majority of my non-PvX friends in Guild Wars play. Half of them don't even know about the wiki, and those that do tend to only farm when they want a new suit of elite armor. ··· Danny Pew Pew 19:02, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

EXACTLY. That's the worst kind of playerbase a company can hope for. Do you think I should keep my monocle? —Jette 19:11, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

No question about that. Did you know that there's this Miniature Mad King's Guard coming :S - J.P.Talk 19:38, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

I know!  :3 Aren't they cute? I'm going to write a halloween horror story and give ANet the rights to publish it on their site for free if they gimme one. I'm actually a decent author, when I get my mind around to it. Knowing me, though, it won't be done until next halloween.  :< Don't you think the Shards of Orr quest's backstory would make for a good short story? I mean, we know how it ends... but it's the telling that's important. It's a pity I can't just draw; bloody artists, so overappreciated... —Jette 19:47, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

WUT? JP, wtf does the Halloween art contest prize have to do with Jette's letter. Also Jette, I'm sorry, but you are wrong about some of what you said, at least in my corner of the world. I don't farm whether it's 600/smite, or Perma, and I don't PvP (ever), and I do do missions and vanquishes outside of Zquests, not to mention simply doing quests, and I do still enjoy my play time even after 14,000 hrs. -- Wyn talk 19:48, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

honestly wyn, who cares? go play your awesome game then.. im sure there is much to grind still left.. - Wuhy 19:54, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

The same amount who care your precious pvp is broken. -- Wyn talk 19:55, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

@jette 1/2 agree should keep monocle. @ wyn LOL, agreed with wuhy- Zesbeer 19:56, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Wyn, that makes you part of a very small minority. I'm actually part of it as well, as I do enjoy old-fashioned GW from time to time, but the number of people who play like that nowadays are very small. In any event, the general point of my statement remains: PvP heroes are baed, and the new henchmen are just as baed. I really want one of the little candy corn golems.  :< They're so delicious and adorable-looking. —Jette 20:00, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

(Edit conflict) Sorry, Wyn, but defending Anet today is just a bad move. They fucked up. *shrug* Whatcha gonna do? Oh, and I would imagine that you're in a very rare class of players that have played for that long, don't pvp, and don't farm. Just saying :/ Karate Jesus 20:01, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

drama drama drama drama drama drama drama drama drama drama drama drama drama. PvE and PvP are both very serious business. ··· Danny Pew Pew 20:02, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Sorry but who the hell cares about your opinions? --Cursed Angel 20:14, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

"Results may vary, stop making generalisations."

I think there are both good and bad points mentioned here, but then again they're already well known, and a lot of it is wild generalisation. A lot more of this is also player controlled, is that Arenanet's fault that players can be generally more into gimmick/title than actually playing the game? Yet, I don't see what you want Linsey to actually say, or do about it. They're aware of all of this, although people would like to think they're idiots, they're actually not. ~~000.00.00.00~~ 21:06, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

See tl;dr. —Jette 21:09, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

So? Additionally: I'd say without the monocle, had to double take first time, looked like someone had decked you.~~000.00.00.00~~ 21:22, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

IMO, they shouldn't really focus on adding more things for PvE players to do (given how the only thing they could add that would keep people busy for longer than it takes for them to implement something would be by adding tons and tons of grind). But regarding Jette's complain: do you really think those new henchmen are going to be a problem? Regardless of how much the AI is updated, I doubt a henchmen using Rush and Frenzy would be anywhere near as useful as a human player with the same build. Erasculio 21:38, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Jette's talking about the LC/Soul Bind/Interrupt Spam heroes that ANet decided were balanced enough for the AI to use. ··· Danny Pew Pew 21:39, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

"...the Guild Wars playerbase is, by and large, pretty terrible in every sense of the word. They embody everything that is bad about online gaming: immaturity, barbaric manners, universal disrespectfulness, a complete lack of understanding of what a game is supposed to be about."

Funny, pretty much everyone in the guild I'm in (and have been in for about ten months now, ever since I first got GW) is polite, helpful, sometimes funny, and generally relaxed. Admittedly, we do have a minimum age requirement (16), but even so, we get along quite well, and our guildmaster's pretty levelheaded and always willing to lend a hand or answer questions. It's what we as a guild do, basically, as we get a lot of people new to the game and that's who we're geared toward. So I don't think your statement's quite as true as you might think, Jette. I think you might just be a little jaded, but that's just my opinion. --Nathe 23:11, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

TBH, I find it sad that Wyn gets an NPC named after her in the PVP REALM OF THE GW WORLD when all she is going to do is laugh at how we care for our "precious pvp". Because GW is a game that was built as a PVP game from the start. (too lazy to link the video) Tbh, I could say some more but I'll try to avoid making a personal attack. Underated 03:08, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

I find it sad that you don't know how much she's helped on the wiki. Wyn, and everybody else that has an NPC, deserved it (except for the 1 or 2 people I don't know at all, but they probably deserve it anyway). Wyn and pvpers are in separate minorities, but wyn's minority still has some good gameplay left, ours doesn't. ~Shard 03:14, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

GUYS GUYS I FIGURED IT OUT.

EVERYONE WHO DISAGREES WITH YOU IS PART OF A VERY SMALL MINORITY!

AHH, WITH THAT PROPOSITION GRANTED, IT ALL MAKES SENSE AT LAST | 72 {U|T|C} 03:16, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Protip: everyone on the wiki is part of a very small minority, because 99% of the players aren't active here. PvE players who actually enjoy PvE -- like Wyn -- still have something to the game left to enjoy, and I wish them well. Actually, PvE isn't that bad if you have friends and/or a guild to play in. PvP, however, is basically dead, mainly for reasons listed above. PvP players can't choose to only play against good PvP players, they have to take the good and the bad, which means most of PvP is just PvE lite. —Jette 03:26, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Someone is in the "Can't find the caps lock key" minority. ~Shard 03:27, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

In response to shards comment.. I know she's done so much on the wiki. I understand and do believe she deserves some recognition. I just find it ironic that she would get a pvp NPC. Plus there's the fact that I really don't care for the extremes on any end, ie. pve only players who care not for anyone elses care for their "precious pvp" or the elitist pvp player that ridicules pve players. Underated 03:33, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

How is the pet tamer a "PvP NPC?" It can be used by both pve and pvp characters. ~Shard 03:43, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Because it's easier for people imaginations if it just is. /shrugs That's how a lot of non-sense starts. ~~000.00.00.00~~ 03:46, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

/sigh Of course it can be used by both. But it sure is tied very heavily to pvp. No need to overanalyze my point. On topic, I agree with a lot of what you said, Jette. Concerning minorities/majorities, ect. we can all accept that as important as pvp might be individually to each player (coming from a player who loves pvp) it is still the minority currently. But I believe that its hard to judge what the minorities in certain cases or subjects are without hard to judge. As seventy-two said, it seems the idea of a minority seems purely subjective depending on your point of view, without hard facts of course. Underated 04:08, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

As the menagerwhatsit makes acquiring desired pet skins on PvE characters much easier (it removes the hassle of, for example, getting PKM or running Underworld in the hopes of getting the right "drop", or running to whatever random corner of the world has the pet you want), I don't think it's fair to categorize it as PvE or PvP specifically. -- Armond Warblade{{Bacon}} 04:13, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Meh, I guess I failed at pointing out irony then. Underated 15:09, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] [1]

The pvx user User:Frosty posted this long before your contest for hench bars was even imagined. One of the bars selected as the winner of the contest is a direct copy of that build posted by User:Frosty, yet he was not awarded a prize for this and his intellectual property was essentially stolen under the cc-by-nc-sa license. Ups.--168.122.167.210 19:20, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Also, while i haven't gatehred all of the specific examples yet, this is true for 25+ of the other builds currently selected as prize-winners for the henchman contest. I doubt you'd realistically have any legal troubles because of this, but it could very well stir up some pretty bad PR among the community once it becomes public knowledge that you're awarding prizes to individuals for builds that are very widely used (and were NOT created by the users who submitted them and could thus be viewed as stolent intellectual property).--168.122.167.210 19:24, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

User Frosty here! I would like to say that I feel slightly left out of all this Crazy Henchmen Skill Bar Contest stuff, seeing as one of the skill bar entries was a Direct copy (except merely re-shuffling the skills) of a build I posted on to PvXwikia. Now by cc-by-nc-sa license this is technically "stolen" so to speak, so do I get a reward for the Skill bar that got picked? I am going to quote the main condition this entry breaches:

• Originality: Entries must be the submission of the contestant and cannot be taken from any other source. Your submission must not infringe on any patent, copyright, trademark or other intellectual property right, or any privacy, publicity or publishing rights of any third party, or be libelous, obscene or otherwise contrary to law.

As you can see, the skill bar is a replica of the one in the heading. May I had that although this is only one incident, this could be taken up with a MAJORITY of the skill bars entered, as they are documented on PvXwikia and have a high chance of being simply ripped from PvXwikia, so, do all the authors of the Builds get a reward, or is this Henchman idea simply a bad one... Down to you. Frosty 19:29, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

You're a bit late for the party. Scroll up - there's two sections here on that, plus at least one thread on both guru and GWO. There's probably more (and in more places), but I've not been paying a whole lot of attention to everywhere this is happening. -- Armond Warblade{{Bacon}} 19:30, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

None of them directly talk of breach of licensing, as has been done here. Although someone pointed it out to me on PvX/Guru. Frosty 19:33, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Feedback_talk:Regina_Buenaobra/Journal some more input (at the very bottom)--aRTy 19:35, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

A Funny claim to make. Now provide some evidence. Backsword 05:15, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Those builds circle around HA players before PvX editors write them into articles, all useable builds eventually ends up there. Also build wars is build wars, both derv builds have WS, coincidence? May have something to do with 10% of the skills being op, 90% useless. --Cursed Angel 19:49, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

You're just reinforcing the point that it's very improper to be awarding prizes to individuals who simply submitted bars that "belong" to the pvp community as a whole--168.122.167.210 19:51, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

" Yes, these skills are the bane of my foes when seeking a place in the Hall of Heroes."

You original spinal shivers + ice spear build isn't very useful in HoH is it? And yeah, that's what they're doing, randomly rewarding people for submitting builds they could get in Obs. --Cursed Angel 20:03, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

I do not believe that point has been contested. I could be wrong, though. -- Armond Warblade{{Bacon}} 20:10, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Earth to IP!...
GW builds are not Original Writings or Content. The only "Intellectual Property" found on PvX is the write-ups and guides on using the skills which your PvX example is SORELY lacking in... In other words, there is no case for Trademark Infringement or Plagiarism, and NONE of the content licensed under PvX is under Federally registered copyrights so even if it qualified as "ripping off", the actual offense and infringement of property theft would basically amount to stealing rotten apples. --ilr 20:28, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Even if there isn't a legal case for conditions being breached, the whole contest was a botch, Live team members said multiple times that the builds would have to be creative, not meta gimmicks, and be usable by hero's and not player replacements. None of those "guidelines" were met with the winning builds, since they are simply builds ripped off of Observer Mode/Builds already known by the PvP Community/ or Builds ripped from PvX (which are in essence builds ripped from the Obs or the community). This whole Henchmen Skill Bar Contest has gone from something that the PvP Community will have loved (submit some Hero bars that can suffice if missing a player, while removing OP heroes) into a complete shambles with meta builds on hencmen that they either won't be able to run or are simply builds people will have used on heroes.

Let me sum it up for you, the "Live Team" have put a big stain on their already pretty tarnished reputation, and not even Cillit Bang will remove it (brit joke). Frosty 20:41, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I believe We've ALL argued THAT point somewhere already. Anet outright LIED to us and this puts a huge blemish on Robert Gee's career before he even really got it off the ground. I'm sorry you feel cheated, and you're right to feel that way, but I think that second repercussion I just pointed out is 10x more tragic. If I was a staff member of Anet, I would be here trying to handle this Shit Storm instead of taking the weekend off because it's a lot uglier than than some silly little slip up like the buggy skill patches or canceled features they've "monitored for PR damage" all weekend-long in the past. --ilr 20:58, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Ugh, IP. What a horridly lame concept. NOTHING is ever created in a vacuum. All creations are built upon and inspired by other creations. Freaking out about it is pointless. ----Nathe 00:22, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Speaking of missing the point, these "creations" were not built upon and inspired by anything else, they were completely ripped from other sources. Read the other topics so you can learn what this is all about. King Neoterikos 00:50, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Technically...Frosty's right. Under the PvX license and the rules to the henchmen skill bar contest, it is copyright infringement......just so everyone is aware. Now, obviously people used the bar before Frosty posted it; however, by being the first to post the build on PvX and under the license w/in the site, he (or at least the site) has the right to contest the build being copied. Ups, Anet.... Karate Jesus 13:50, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

You always have right to contest it. It's the law. Don't need any of that other stuff for it. You'll also get laughed out of court if you try. Backsword 14:26, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Wait a second, so the fact that someone posts it somewhere means they 'own' it? There's only so many ways to put together a (usable) skillbar. Sorry, I don't buy that. 71.146.86.174 00:00, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

There is no copyright infringement here bolded so people might stop to read this. The skill concepts, icons, and inherent mechanics all belong to ArenaNet. The very idea of accusing them of stealing their own material is absurd. If I buy 8 paintings by Picasso and arrange them on my wall in non-chronological order, does that make them my intellectual property? Of course not. elix Omni 05:17, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Soo

Hey Linsey, were the rules of this contest that the first one to submit a popular bar wins or were all of the other entries seriously that shit? I mean come on, PvX wiki is even listed as a god damn fan site on Guildwars.com. I'm pretty sure any build that could have possibly been considered plausible is stored on this site so claiming that you are rewarding players for originality when submitting contest builds is a fucking joke. To sum it up, LOL HEY GUYS LETS ALL RACE TO PVX AND YANK A BUILD TEMPLATE, hell, even just using obs any time during the past few months would have sufficed. Way to fucking go.--Shadowsin 19:46, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

if U look ...U will find 95% of all builds made over time on pvx.wikia.com to make a build on the last 5% is the same as two VS drops in one run... ce★devilman

VS has a 25% drop rate?

Back on topic, it's not hard to come up with original builds. Have you seen the RtL wars on obs now? Guess what didn't exist when the contest started. Sure, it's very similar to the standard shockaxe. It's also an entirely different play on the same basic concept, which definitely qualifies it as "original".

I could come up with more examples, but I'm going to rest my case here. is for Raine, etc. 01:53, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Don't forget where you put it down, now | 72 {U|T|C} 02:47, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

its drop rate is actually closer to ~22.5% for a 8-man team according to him. that means a ~2.8% drop chance for you and a ~5% drop chance for 2 ppl on the team. - Wuhy 10:37, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Um....are we ever going to get a reply on the henchmen contest stuff?

I've seen one sentence about it from Regina on GWGuru and it basically ignored all the bullshit, so....yea....are we even going to get a reply? I understand that this is tough and all, but disobeying your own contest rules and allowing copyright infringement (which, btw, PvX has the right to claim under their license) can lead to problems like this. So...whatcha going to do about it? Ignore us? Karate Jesus 13:53, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

"I like this ship. It's exciting!"

This is exciting. ^_^ ~~000.00.00.00~~ 14:02, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Sorry kinda came into this half way through and not completely sure whats going on. Just on a legal note, a build using GW's intellectual property can not then be guarded by anybody else's license. Thus PvX does not hold any proprietary rights to any of the builds that are on PvX wiki as they are all utilizing anet's intellectual property. If that's not what this is about, my apologies for misunderstanding. -- Salome 14:09, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

However, Regina said on GWGuru that they're going to have each winner sign an agreement stating that the build they made was, in fact, made by them....which I think is liable under that agreement. Karate Jesus 14:11, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

But I'm not a lawyer or anything, and only have a basic understanding of copyright laws. Karate Jesus 14:12, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

I see your point. However on a legal sense one cannot claim ownership of a build (or anything else within the game) as A) its common legal practice and B) its stated in the EULA that everything remains under the sole ownership of Anet regardless of what you do. I don't think the disclaimer is for legal purposes, I think it's for PR purposes. Thus anet can say "hey they said they made it!" and the other 10,000 people who have ran that build before get told to moan at the person claiming to have made it rather than anet themselves. Personally I think any build on PvX wiki should have been disallowed to avoid this, further to that I also think any build with 6 identical skills in it to a PvX build should have been disallowed. I myself could have entered about 12 of the winning builds as I have them saved on my build templates, but didnt as I knew they were PvX builds. I still think Anet should have just made 30 henchies themselves and then left the last 10 builds open to the community, would have been much easier for them to balance and judge and avoided all these issues. -- Salome 14:21, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

(Edit conflict) PvX doesn't hold copyright to anything when it comes to Arenanet's material, as far as I'm aware. However, if a winning build can be proven to be identical to a PvX build, or of the core structure and variations mentioned within a PvX build that pre-date the competition, then the originality of the winning build can come into question. It's difficult for a person in the competition to claim their build is actually their's when similar, if not identical builds could be found on PvX or another source, which then brings this clause of the competition into consideration:

Originality: Entries must be the submission of the contestant and cannot be taken from any other source.

Arenanet was destined to run face first into this, I'm surprised people didn't see this coming. I part-agree with Salome, Arenanet should have just made the builds themselves. ~~000.00.00.00~~ 14:22, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

No how it works. You need to show that they couldn't have come up with it themselves and that they copied it specifically from you. Not the other way around. Backsword 14:32, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

"then the originality of the winning build can come into question": way too late for that, there are plenty of complains already stating that everything was copied from PvX. Good luck proving that a build wasn't "created" by the user who submited it regardless of it being available on PvX wiki or not.

The GW community is the worst community I have ever seen. Instead of focusing on the valid complains (as in, how the chosen bars have skills that henchmen won't use well, or overpowered stuff that Arena Net should nerf, instead of building bars around), people chose to focus on the one irrelevant argument (how the useful builds for the henchmen had to be useful, and therefore popular). No one has shown an unique non meta build that would actually give us even slightly useable henchmen. Erasculio 14:29, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

<hands Erasculio a torch> Go for gold, sweet heart, show us, the community, how it's done. ~~000.00.00.00~~ 14:32, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Auron, Jette and others have already mentioned some (valid) concerns about the skill bars. I don't see any point in repeating them, other than to try to make the constructive criticism to stand out from the "I want my unique (and terrible) snowflake build to win" comments. Erasculio 14:36, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

I'm guessing you'll get replied to once the weekend is over and they're back at work. You don't need to shout "teh injustices!" ad infinitum, and this page doesn't need to get any bigger with this topic - there's not much you can do but wait for their response (which will inevitably come). Considering these bars aren't even in the game yet, this issue isn't of the utmost urgency. --pling  14:26, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

agreed with erasculio, they are bad because they are retarded meta gimmicks, hench does not use them well and are not original in the slightest, not because they are from pvx and now we should fuck with legal issues... WHO CARES? >.<" and I guess they are never going to reply, they'll wait for us to calm down, pretend that nothing happened and ignore us as always. - Wuhy 14:43, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

There are a bunch of separate issues here Erasculio. One is that people who don't care about the quality of the henchman bars were screwed out of a chance of winning by following the rules of the competition instead of submitting builds off of PvXwiki and obs. Another issue is that they have given henchmen builds which were problems on heroes and as such, won't solve the problems they set out to solve. Another issue is that they have put bars on henchmen that the AI is incapable of running effectively and will likely never be able to run no matter how much magic Joe can work (you can barely teach people to snare and make haste correctly, good luck programming that). All three problems are relatively serious. I wish you good luck with all that ArenaNet and the Live Team. Misery 15:54, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

The second and third issues are real problems. The first one is moot - the point was to have henchmen with good builds, not henchmen with "unique" disfunctional builds, and good builds have become common thanks to how people gravitate towards what works. It's ironic that so many people are complaining about the first problem while the two other ones, which are far more important and will have an impact in the game on the long run, are mostly being left aside. Erasculio 16:09, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

If I had entered builds in good faith and specifically not entered meta builds, I would be pretty pissed off too. Probably quite a lot of people are just stirring, but there are people who are legitimately pissed off. I didn't enter any builds, but I'll be giving Joe a nice list of the AI problems when I get the time. Misery 16:53, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Era, You seem to keep insisting that there's no such thing as an effective and original AI-run bar. I'm curious if this is just you being Contrarian as usual, or if it really is rooted in a lack of understanding of Event Triggers and Artificial Intelligence? Have you ever programmed your own AI scripts before? --ilr 21:46, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Actually, it's rooted in how people who think a build with one (bad) damage dealing skill is "devastating" believe they are even close to knowing how the game works in order to be able to judge what is effective and what isn't. Not knowing one's own limits is the worst kind of ignorance. Erasculio 22:18, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

You do realize you're being hypocritical then?, by not answering the question while hiding behind "Everyone else but me is ignorant on this, especially you!"... Typical, but you just saved me a ton of time since I don't even have to build a case to prove it now. --ilr 23:29, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Says the guy who's avoiding (again) my question about what would be a good and unique build behind (more) trashtalk. You have already proved how well you know what is a good build and what isn't the moment you called the pathetic "Zealot Sheoli" build "devastating". Feel free to try changing the subject in order to hide your own ignorance, but you are only making it clear how the actually constructive discussion (with the arguments presented by Auron, Jette, Misery and others) is being hindered by people who are just fond of hearing their own voice. Erasculio 23:45, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Well, I'll join the discussion here. I'm one of the paragon bar winners. Arenanet should not have been so vague in their language about originality. This caused a lot of confusion, including in myself, because I submitted bars that were more original than the paragon bar such as this warrior bar

or this Mesmer bar

When I made my bars, I crafted them around the AI at the time, because I don't trust Anet to make an AI that knows how to use Frenzy correctly. The same was true for the winning paragon bar

It so happens that after I chose an elite, most of the skill choices were no-brainers. You need really really want aggressive refrain, an anthem of weariness/flame, res sig, GftE and vicious attack. It happens that there is a PvX build that covers the rest of the variants after these obvious choices. Aevar talk contribs 17:23, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Whose fault is it that the rest of the skills suck?--98.238.169.189 17:26, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

What? Aevar talk contribs 17:27, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Aevar, the problem not that your build was bad; in fact, it is one of the better ones out there and the AI can run it no problem. The real problem is in the other bars that others have already said: they are just terrible when giving them to henchies. This is one of the main reasons why people are pissed off, because this not only shows that Anet has no idea how their own game works, but also they wasted so much valuable time into this project when it could have been spent on more dire issues. 209.89.252.164 18:33, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Builds that are "effective, therefore popular" are the result of bad skill balancing. When only 9 paragon skills are non-useless, of course 8 (7) of them will be run on one bar. That's an issue not worth getting into at the moment, but it's something to think about.

Many people instead are pissed that the hench bars, which the dev team said would contain no gimimcks, contains 90% gimmicks, and all but a few of them can NOT be run on a henchman without becoming either useless (frenzy) or broken (interrupts). Everything about this issue has already been said, and as Pling stated, you won't get a response until Monday. ~Shard 20:07, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

@Karate Jesus not until tomorrow Monday (its still the weekend here in Seattle.) i mean if you are expecting a reply that's when you should expect to get it.- Zesbeer 22:36, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Holy HELL, this is getting exciting ^_^ ~~000.00.00.00~~ 00:46, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Should we start bets on what it's gonna be then since there's so many ways they could go with this? --ilr 05:07, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Criticizing anet for something they haven't done yet isn't constructive. Wait until they give an explanation if you're not going to say anything else. ~Shard 05:10, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Wait a minute...Y SO SRS? You really think they might 'Cop' to this, don't you? Alright, alright... if you can hold back the cynicism then I guess I can too for a day. --ilr 05:27, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

...So, we got 2 kinds of responses now... Any comments? I don't know if you're a fan of weasel words but surely you must find some amount of inconsistency in the fact that they found time to sift through 30,000 submissions but can't even set aside the time to explain why the results don't even match the rules stated goal of the contest. Maybe Anet should try and get an Arbcomm ruling against all of us since it's proving so effective on their best critic. --ilr 00:17, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

they say over 35(?)k entries but they pick out the one that are alrdy existing for human players. for myself, i would say they just sorted the builds for each profession and then already kicked the ones with "nonconfirmistic" elite skills. BOOM 1k left. sort out the ones handed in by people who don't manage to copy wiki bars. BOOM 250 left.->gogo random

[edit] UWSC

You sayed 8min uwsc was wayway to fast in a reasend gw interviw at pax, now someone has done it in 7min. When will you guys update it:P. [2] 84.80.151.136 05:43, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

She is too nervous to answer right now. Yseron - 90.14.96.144 11:25, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

lol. --Cursed Angel 11:28, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

I bet you cannot see anyone using Shadow Form to perform this exploit. It's been over a year now that UW is vandalized... M3G 11:33, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Give it six months from next Tuesday. I'm sure the developers are thrilled something that probably took them months to do can be completed so easily. ~~000.00.00.00~~ 11:48, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Given the professions there, I'd guess that if they tweaked one little skill, their problem would be solved.... -- FreedomBound 14:49, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Hard mode was meant to be a challenge! not a faster way to grind the fuck out of this game. Good Job GWLT! --Boro 15:25, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

I seriously doubt we'll see an answer to any of the burning questions on this page today, guys. I imagine that Linsey is pulling the old "let's let them blow off steam first" tactic. Only problem is that they've done it for too long....and now we're getting pretty pissed. Btw, henchmen skillbar contest, XTH, TA/HB, Sealed Deck, skill update, Dungeon Balance/SC fix, etc. Does anyone actually expect them to do any of that correctly now? LOL. Karate Jesus 15:46, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

She's either doing that or discussing with the anet staff what she should respond.She has already posted on the wiki so she *did* see all the rage.The Ironic thing is that I didn't think they would do the sealed deck and stuff right (so I kinda am against the HB change since HB reduces grind and what we will get instead will proly be bad anyway).I *did* expect them to get good bars.So basicly the last bit of respect I had for anet was kinda crushed with that.Its just to ridiculous for words.But I guess people have already said the !!!! I wanted to say so I'm goin to stop here~. Lilondra *poke* 16:49, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

I think Arenanet needs to rethink their approach. As nice as having the XTH back, putting in the Sealed Deck, making the changes to the pre-existing content; in terms of skills and the dungeons (if the skills weren't to be hit too hard) should come first. It's nice getting stuff for free, like the XTH, and new stuff like Sealed Deck, which sounds nice, but fix the foundation before you try to build an extention. ~~000.00.00.00~~ 22:42, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Please don't encourage them to re-think their approach again. They've done that at least twice this year and we're still yet to see any changes from it. I mean....the same stuff hasn't been done since April..... Karate Jesus 22:50, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Remember the 6 hour 1 day MoR nerf? Good joke. ··· Danny Pew Pew 22:53, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Compared to microsoft who came with the only os on earth whose progress bars can go backward they still got a lot to learn. Yseron - 90.9.120.70 22:58, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

I'm just spending every moment I can stand to working on our active projects so they can be completed. If I don't have the luxury of getting a weekend off and instead worked until 2am on Saturday and am right now still working since Sunday afternoon (almost 24 hours straight), then I really don't have time for lengthy wiki discussions. Sorry guys, but the work takes priority right now. We can scream at each other later once I've gotten the chance to breathe. Oh, and I've known that someone had gotten UWSC down to 7 minutes for a while now, I just didn't use that as the example because it's a very rare occurrence, not the norm. - Linsey talk 23:31, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Don't worry about lengthy wiki discussions. In-game results would be much MUCH nicer than hearing that you're working on it for the......well, let's just say for the "uptenth" time. Karate Jesus 23:39, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

im glad your working on the game. what i am not glad about is the bar contest. but i have a feeling that any issues we have with the contest should be brought up to Regina?- Zesbeer 00:57, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Please do. She's keeping me updated since I don't have time to read much of the feedback. - Linsey talk 04:47, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Ok, people who brag about their speed clears are idiots! The only thing you're going to do by bragging about how fast you can run an elite area is add fuel to the NERF SHADOW FORM NOW!! fire. You're going to piss off the people who are anti-shadow form, and you're going to give the devs a reason to nerf it. I KNOW you don't want this to happen, so stop bragging and they might leave SF alone! --MushaTalk 23:07, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Doesn't matter if they do or do not boast with it. They would be on the case wether or not there would be posers showing off their leet skeelz. They just dunno how yet. BlazeRick 23:17, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

You're half-right, it doesn't matter if they boast = because no new "critter" changes have been made to the area yet --ilr 20:14, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

@Musha, they don't do it for profit, they do it for 1. fun 2. bragging.. - Wuhy 11:15, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

To get the time of completion more in respective values, change essence of celerity (20% skill recharge into 15%). A couple of the Sc builds need adjustment then. Then take into consideration to give some of the foes life stealing and enchantment ripping skills (sf ripping onces) would do the job. Then people have to group again to succeed a more paced way, ecto prices will rise again, people already managed to buy everything due to sc are happy, uw is silence....people stop playing...newcomers aren't able to get nice weps, armor etc...and eventually stopping...meaning no trading, no fun no grouping...but then that's what people want imo...not me i play for fun...not ever done a sc in 4,5 years of playing Didis 13:39, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

I have a suggestion page for the Essence making it so the 20% effects from the Essence don't stack with other bonuses of the type, so you couldn't keep up Shadow Form with just Deadly Paradox, but doesn't truly hinder it for everyone else. There's lot of things Arenanet could take into consideration to slow the stem of Speed clear builds, but, alas, I don't expect to see them actually address the issue until next year. ~~000.00.00.00~~ 19:26, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Lightbringer's Gaze and Holy Damage

Hi Linsey. Can you please explain why the 100 Holy Damage, which is supposed to be armor-ignoring, done by the skill Lightbringer's Gaze gets reduced, seemingly by the foes' armor level? Thank you! --MushaTalk 23:25, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Actually....that's a very good question. It's probably not the right question for Linsey, though. Karate Jesus 23:31, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Maybe it's inheritly affected by LB rank? --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Moo Kitty (talk).

It is...but shouldn't be affecting the 100 base damage (if it is, in fact, holy damage). Karate Jesus 23:39, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

What I meant was, instead of Concise: Target demonic servant of Abaddon takes 100 holy damage and is interrupted. Hits one additional foe in the area for each rank of Lightbringer you have attained. This skill is disabled (15 seconds), it might be 60...92...100 or something similar. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Moo Kitty (talk).

Oh, no....it's definitely affected by armor. Most 60AR targets will take the full 100 (if I remember right). Karate Jesus 23:44, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I thought it might be the wrong place to ask, but I didn't know whomelse to ask. And the damage done by the skill is 100 holy damage, whether you are at rank 1 or rank 8. The only thing affected by LB rank is how many other foes are affected by the skill outside target foe. Besides, I am at max rank and I am still getting reduced holy damage. --MushaTalk 23:49, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Unlike health loss and life stealing, armor ignoring damage is affected by damage reduction. Abaddon's Chosen:Concise description - Enchantment Spell. (10 seconds.) Target cannot lose Health. Maybe there's some strange interaction?

Yes, Karate, 60AL foes take 100 damage, while Rangers, Dervs, Warriors, etc have reduced damage, even though its supposed to be holy damage. And Abaddon's Chosen shouldn't be having weird effects. I am often interrupting that skill and they still take reduced damage. --MushaTalk 23:58, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Holy damage isn't always armor ignoring damage. Holy damage from weapons(what was previously called 'light' damage) doesn't ignore armor. What I wonder is why did they merged the light and holy damages, but not the dark and shadow ones. MithTalk 00:19, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Probably b/c there's no equivalent to a Tormentor's Insignia for whichever class would be more thematically vulnerable to shadow damage (most likely 's or 's who's insigs all suck anyway) --ilr 20:27, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Haa? Monks would clrealy be the most thematic, I'd think. Backsword 13:01, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Please create a feedback page for your suggestions. Backsword 13:01, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Bugs with Light of Deldrimor/Hidden Treasure

← moved to Feedback talk:Joe Kimmes

[edit] Salvage Rate

Is it possible for you to tell us the rate at which high-end rare crafting materials can be salvaged out of items that bear their name? For example, can amber chunks be salvaged out of an amber staff? If so, what is the rate? I am interested in knowing about amber, jadeite, diamonds, sapphires, and rubies. The wiki pages for each of these materials say that they CAN be salvaged, but I have never been successful.--MushaTalk 00:59, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

While you are waiting for answer from ANet: Folks here and at Guild Wiki collect salvage rate data. The data here is usually posted on an item's talk page. On the mats and rare mats articles, you will also sometimes see salvage rate data in the talk. I've also been curious, so I've been keeping track of drop rates for certain items on my own spreadsheets (and I eventually post the data here). Here are some broad generalizations based on my experience:

• items found in HM seem to be more likely to return rare mats than those found in NM;
• more expensive items seem more likely to drop rare mats;
• expensive items that do not drop rare mats almost always drop enough ordinary mats to pay the 16 for expert salvage;
• a number of items/trophies will drop rare mats, but the rates are so low that it isn't worth the double-click time to find out (e.g. Charr Hides salvage into Fur about 1 out of 10 times).
• I have never gotten jadeite or amber out of weapons with Jade or Amber in their name. After about 2 dozen tries, I find it faster to collect those mats via faction.
• I trust this wiki when it says Item X will drop rare material Y; in all the sampling I've done, I've only found one entry which didn't match posted data. Note again: some of the rates are as low as 1/100 and not every page has posted data. (In a few cases, the only evidence is a screenshot of a single drop; not enough to set expectations.)

Naturally, your mileage will vary. (Of course, I'd much prefer to see actual empirical data from ANet.)   — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 03:31, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Amber and jade weapons are know to salvage into amber and jade, and jeweled daggers into rubies. But the chances seem to be worthwhile only when they are highly salvageable. I never got jade from jade weapons, but I did once from one highly salvageable rare amber bow. And it's a wide know trick to salvage Measure for measure inscriptions and apply them to some Vabbian weapons to get jewels. MithTalk 11:41, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Aw man, I totally wrote a response to this last night, but it looks like I didn't submit it. Oops.

I asked Hargrove (GW/GW2 Item System Designer) about this. He said that the salvage rate is all done somewhere really deep in the code (aka "Voodoo Magic"), all we ever did was set weights. Not like there is a spread sheet I could check. But I can confirm that all the asked about gems can be salvaged out of something. I can't say exactly what salvages out of what, but knowing John, it's probably safe to say that if the item seems like it should salvage into such a thing; it will. At least from Factions on since that's when he started making those decisions. - Linsey talk 06:19, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

I'm willing to accept Voodoo as likely-as-anything-else. I would love to get a look at actual salvage rates based on what players find in-game. I'd be willing to bet gold pieces or faction that there are drop-rate oddities that the programmers never would have predicted (based on the law of unintended software, if for no other reason). I understand that, even if ANet has that data, you might not be able or willing to share it with us. Maybe you could let us know whether we are barking up the right or the wrong trees as we go about collecting our own info. Thanks!   — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 06:55, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

>really deep in the code

ಠ_ಠ SOURCE CODE IS NOT PASTA. YOU MUST LEAVE COMMENTS IN EACH SECTION SO YOU CAN CTRL+F. —Jette 11:50, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

I also found it a bit disturbing to hear that there are parts of the game you have no knowledge of. -- NUKLEAR IIV 12:07, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

It seems understandable to me tbqh, a lot of the base of the game was probably created back when it had the old cartoony art style and they had a smaller team back then. I'm sure very very very few people there actually know about every part of the game (prolly just the founders) in excessive detail. DarkNecrid 12:55, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Exactly. That is why you leave comments. –Jette

13:11, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

I ...hate... hearing stuff like this. Also included: "we didn't know the engine could DO that!" and "we lost/found the TPS report on our data structure". Voodoo code = Voodoo bugs, ppl... --ilr 20:35, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

/* [keywords and purpose of code block go here] */ ← Failure to follow this pattern is probably a big part of why GW2 is being made. –Jette

21:08, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

And if an item doesn't seem like it should salvage into anything, it will salvage into Glittering Dust. I bet it's set as default material or something like that, XDDDD MithTalk 02:06, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Do keep in mind that I am a designer, not a programmer. There are vast amounts of things I don't know about GW. Which would make sense, since I can't read code. I wouldn't even know where to start looking. - Linsey talk 20:57, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

We thought you meant the programmers didn't know where to look. It's not as hard as you'd think, if you want to try it some time. Open the code in Notepad, press CTRL+F and look for "salvage." Assuming it's all properly commented, it'd not be difficult to find. Well, it would with notepad, because it's terrible, but you know what I mean. Anyway, this is why I support open-source software; whenever you don't know something you can usually find somebody else who can figure it out. –Jette 23:47, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Good luck. As great as open-source is, trying to run a business when the code your product model is based on is available to public view would be horrendous. Granted it's definitely possible to build a superb game from the ground up under an open source license--the Star Wars Galaxies Emulator is proof of that--but trying to sell a product to consumers when the source code for you client, servers, or both is available is just a bad plan.--TahiriVeila 14:22, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Well, I didn't say for a game. Just in general. You would be surprised how easy it is to make money with open-source stuff, though, without ever violating licenses or charging customers. –Jette 14:24, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

To some extent yes. Various linux platforms(redhat in particular comes to mind, though i'm nto sure exactly how available its source is) have proven that you can sell an open-source product, but on the same note none of those linux platforms have been incredibly successful either. I'm definitely with you though, I've done a fair bit of work on the server-to-client communications coding for the SWGEmu and I'd LOVE to get my hands on the guts of the GW servers (or even the client really), I just don't think it's practical.--TahiriVeila 14:47, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

@Ilr: Knockdown durations cannot be scaled. is for Raine, etc. 14:26, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] EotN Portal on PvP Isles

A guildie of mine had a question I was asked to relay and so here I am, and forgive me if this has been brought up before, I skimmed through previous questions on the archive page and failed to see anything of the sort (but still may have missed it). Basically, could a quick-portal that leads to Eye of the North be added to the PvP Isles? Would the community even want such a portal or is it just too small an inconvenience to simply travel to LA, Kam, or KC and then on to EotN to even warrant needing a portal? --Master Saji 00:36, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Because you can simply map to LA, and then to any Eotn outpost. personn5 00:41, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

yes you can travle to la but you cant travel there with 8 and i think that's the main thing.- Zesbeer 00:45, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

There are a number of suggestions on the feedback space that would solve this issue. I've seen at least three, but I'm going to plug mine while I'm here ;) ~Shard 01:31, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Yes, this would be better off posted as a suggestion on the Feedback pages --MushaTalk 01:50, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

This is feedback namespace. So /shoo Ɲoɕʈɋɽɕɧ 01:56, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Just going to throw this out the that maybe he doesn't have proph and can't get to eotn threw LA, maybe not him exactly, but there might be many people in that boat. I know i had faction and eotn months before i had Proph and NF,--BobbyT 02:02, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Well, for Factions it's a non issue, since you CAN travel to Kaineng Center with 8 and then map to EotN through the portal. -- Wyn talk 03:24, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Erm, doesn't Eotn require Prophecies? Tidas 06:38, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

nope only one of the campaigns it doesn't have to be prophecies its a expansion not a stand alone. so factions and nightfall would work as well.- Zesbeer 06:46, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

I think this belongs on the feedback suggestion pages, not on Linsey's feedback page. So I agree with Musha.♥ Ariyen ♀ 06:56, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Well since Anet doesn't seem to be even looking at the feedback space at all, he probably has a higher chance of it being noticed here than there. --Nathe 12:59, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Joe already got the message. I suggest posting it there. — Poki#3 (talk) 13:29, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Could u....

...probably start caring about the real important thing in Guildwars: GVG? I mean it's not freakin funny to see good rank 100 guild been beaten by that new me/n fastcast bloodspike and rolled over just because arcane thievery by accident gets your woh? It's a build like the old bspam, you call it gimmick but it really starts disturbing me and if you would just take a closer look at either fastcast or that cultist fevor it will make the gvg community a lot better. (just a few guilds to show you: Hey A I O N [bbGW] or Schleiereulen Dont Say [UhU]. If you would watch them on obs you would clearly see they dont deserve top 100. ty! --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.130.122.163 (talk).

It's back again, always a expolitable gimmicky way wins easily against those guilds better than those lamers. I dont think it'd be fixed unless Anet really want to change...I still hope they could rework life stealing mechanism--TeaCat._. 04:54, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Bloodspike is far, far down the list of things that need to be fixed. Many other things are more important (hexes, for example). There was a day when bloodspike was a joke because, for one thing, the skills didn't recharge every 5 seconds, and you didn't have 6 of them to spam like you do today. There isn't anything inherently wrong with life stealing. It only becomes a problem when you give people too much of it. ~Shard 04:57, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

>it only becomes a problem when you give people too much of it

Yeah, that sums up about 75% of the problems right there, actually. –Jette 05:30, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

No, you guys don't understand the problem. It is NOT funny to get kicked out of the fcking champrange just because some gay germans think it's funny to instaspike you with soa+sb on you. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.130.122.163 (talk).

LOL im not gay or german but i think its funny you got blood spiked out of "champrange" and come on linseys page to rage and flop your e-pen around. games are surus busniz. also sign your comments plz - Zesbeer 09:19, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Blood spike is totally brainless, as always. It may not in fixing-list top3, but still a lingering unbalanced thing, since Prophecies. --TeaCat._. 09:38, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

we didnt get spiked out of cprange, and i have no clue how this signing thing works. we actually beat those guys, but it's simply not fun to play against. you just continiously keep smashing your buttons for 4 minutes and don't have to care about tactics... if you would have a clue about the meaning of playing against it at a high level you see its no comparable build because you cant run 3 woh monks in usual ladder matches.— The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.130.55.154 (talk) at 10:07, 14 October 2009 (UTC).

Use 4 tildes (~). - Reanimated X 11:48, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

This is why Bspike is Bad! (Its a link to a Obs match I frapsed with comment) Lilondra *poke* 12:59, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

So you say it isnt a problem because you can beat it by antibuilding (they were even bad at playing the antibuilds) and tactics? Ok good, R/A got nerfed too, i can antibuild it with 3 Whriling Axers and 3 Watereles while Splitting over the map, chasing single R/As and winning over lord damage.— The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.130.55.154 (talk) at 16:27, 14 October 2009 (UTC).

Has to be one of the worst guilds of all time that runs two earth shakers and a monk flagger and still manages to lose to r600 bloodspike =\ Not pushing the flag and letting them boost was moronic as well (there were two monks up, it would have been better to push the flag and die, but prevent them from boosting, than it would have been to give them 7 fresh sigs when they were completely burned). Terrible play on gthe part of blue =\--TahiriVeila 16:44, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Both sides btw.Lilondra *poke* 17:31, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

lol ur mic's baaad --ilr 19:25, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

tbh idc about guilds that act like morons, and also thats not the build im talking about. im talking about a build, with a spike, that hits about 700 damage armor ignoring and prot ignoring and apressure that could be compared to burning on whole group. and that you call a "gimmick"? byob is a gimmick, even the new one, because you need to THINK before you ACT, but bspike is just->T->1 GOGO HEAD OVER KEYBOARD --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.130.122.163 (talk).

So I played bloodspike back when the only good life stealing skills were Shadow Strike and Vampiric Gaze. It was very easy to beat if you had conscious monks on your team. There's nothing wrong with life stealing, it just gets balanced differently. Also, bad players running broken builds to farm good players has been happening for like 2 years. ~Shard 02:11, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, but what exactly is the "new" version of byob? I was under the impression that you got a "new" version of byob every time someone different was on the team. How can that be gimmicky, if a gimmick is a pre-made build? -- Armond Warblade{{Bacon}} 02:17, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Peeps also started running the mesmer version because the necro version got nerfed.I'm pretty sure its alo more vonorable.Lilondra *poke* 04:10, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Also I would like to add that this is exactly whats the problem.The Bspike guild played even worse then the R19 guild but still almost got to win.Lilondra *poke* 04:13, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

@Shard: Nop. Shadow Strike triggers RoF, which is enough to prevent a clean spike. It's the same reason that the Nightmare Spike teams stopped running Kindle Arrows: the non-lifesteal hurt the spike's integrity. Mesmer bspike is completely different than Shadow Strike and Dark Pact for that reason: your prot monk doesn't exist AT ALL.

Similarly, mesmer bspike is super lolbroken because Vampiric Swarm is just retarded. It's a non-hex spell with delayed damage and no animation at all. As soon as the mesmers press it, ups, someone takes 400 damage loses 400 health a second later and there is no way to tell who. No hex marker, no skill animation. I mean, you can kind of guess by looking at the general direction they turn in. lolskilledplay. What's really cool about Vampiric Swarm's delayed damage is that, with Fast Casting, your next spike skill hits a quarter of a second after Vampiric Swarm does. Hey, guys, that's as fast as Nightmare Spike, but unaffected by obstruction or block, without spike prep, and ridiculously hard to interrupt!

If you're going to leave it unprottable, at least make it infusable. Infuse CASTS in a quarter second, so, if you have a ping that isn't negative, it's too slow to catch a clean spike without HB (rofl, Strip Enchantment is also in Blood Magic! SUCH A FUN ATTRIBUTE!).

Oh, and their spikes cost nothing because putting the best energy management skill in guildwars into an att filled with damage skills was a cool idea. lolbalance. is for Raine, etc. 13:32, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Skill update: Unholy Feast is now a targeted skill. –Jette 15:17, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

I lold. is for Raine, etc. 15:20, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

wow raine is the first one to understadn what i mean. you simply cant prot the spike, and even if they dont spike clean, and u infuse at about half of the vampiric swarm, the afterspike just kills the target with no way to heal it. also, there was (except of the veryveryvery beginning) always a good balanced how a prot and a heal monk were used. but if we see bloodspike playing ladder matches, we dont take a fullprot at all, we just run 3 wohs, wait untill there match is over and fuck them so we can play for the next hour with our normal build. is this a thing a "gimmick" build should do? --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.130.122.163 (talk).

Since when is GvG the "Real important thing in GW"? -- Wyn talk 00:01, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

they have been balancing this game for something other then gvg that's news to me...- Zesbeer 00:08, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

BS, they balance PvE, too! is for Raine, etc. 00:16, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Well, some people tend to think of GW as a "PvP oriented game" or that "started as PvP" or something like that. Having a very good PvP compared to other games doesn't mean that, Prophecies put PvP entrances in the middle of PvE areas, and that was a bit of a mistake that made some people think that playing the game was just a "preparation for PvP", a mistake that was hapily fixed by taking (most of) them all to the Battle Isles. They are just different modes of gameplay, and that's all. But the majority of the players and the majority of the content is still PvE, and most of the players come to the game and stay in the game not for the PvP, but for the PvE parts. Keeping that in mind should not harm anyone. PvP needs more skill changes because it has to be as balanced as possible, since it deals with two equal sides, while PvE only needs to have the excesses cut, since it deals with two completely different sides. MithTalk 00:18, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

I'm going to say it again. There. Is. Nothing. Wrong. With. Life. Stealing. The problem is when teams can bring 5 of them on one bar, and none of them have a recharge. The result is that even when a team is spamming their skills on recharge, they still do more damage than the other teams' monks can heal, even if the enemy team's monks are doing nothing wrong. Raine's gvg experience doesn't include running/beating bloodspikes in gvg for 3 years in a top guild. Mine does. Life stealing skills:

1. Need to be less abundant.
2. Need higher recharges.
3. Need to steal less life.
4. 25/90 Vamp Spirit.

And this silly bloodspike champion farm would go away, leaving mainly hexway to dominate. ~Shard 01:48, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Or....they could take less drastic measures and just rework lifestealing so it's not such a ridiculously easy spike to use in PvP. And hexway is just as easy (I mean...dual VoR...really?) and since half the new henchmen are hexway...I don't think Anet cares about it. Karate Jesus 01:57, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Reread the beginning of my post please. You're still not getting it. ~Shard 02:00, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

@Mith: [3] -- Armond Warblade{{Bacon}} 02:02, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Armond, Guild Wars has two components, PvE and PvP... you do realise he was referring to the PvP element - I mean, they were at a PvP tournament after all - not Guild Wars as a whole. ~~000.00.00.00~~ 03:01, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

There may be two components, but GW was originally built for PvP to be the primary focus. Over time it became primarily a PvE grindfest, and it appears that that's the model the GWLT has officially leaned towards. Karate Jesus 03:10, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

@Armond: Have you heard of the concept of "paradigm"? Things change. Things evolve. For better or worse, that is to be judged, but you can't expect that after 5 years, that statement remains valid. I mean, if this was only a bunch of people fighting over supremacy over the other bunch, why even build a world map? Why elaborate on lore? Things have shifted toward PvE, and that's that. I hear your pain over the unbalance existing in PvP, and I do hope that the Live Team can find a way to have a redemption on the format, but stop biasing everything. Can't two concepts co-exist on the game? Oh, and for everyone else, yes, PvP needs to have balance, because you need fairness on a competition; PvE does NOT need balance, since after all, it's killing bytes, what PvE needs to be is challenging. -- Large 03:12, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Anet didn't just "decide" to focus on PvE instead. ...Over time, PvP failed to recruit PvE'ers into it -- PvP also failed to recruit PvP'ers from other Genre's -- case in Point: Anet was recently celebrating 6 million copies of GW being sold. That's pretty good for a fantasy RPG. However Call of Duty 4 has sold over 14 million... that's where a REAL PvP game should be these days. That's what "inclusive" PvP with "rank Grind" looks like. GW couldn't even get most of its PvE'ers to reliably crossover to PvP; on PvP venues that ironically enough involved more focus on A.I./NPC's than it did completely player-controlled situations. --ilr 03:46, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

"but GW was originally built for PvP to be the primary focus", please provide proof of this other than that one youtube video that can easily be taken the wrong way. Surely, with the whole 'primary focus was pvp' line people are trying to use, there would be more proof of such a stance. like to put out I don't care either way, but it's funny watching people get all worked up over the whole "GW was all for PvP" /cough ~~000.00.00.00~~ 04:18, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

One of the founders of Anet and creators of the game said "GW was built to be a competitive game." What more proof do you need? ~Shard 04:41, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

........and some years later, one of the devs (or maybe it was Gaile, I don't remember) specifically said GW was not intended as a PvP game. I could find the diff eventually, but it's buried pretty deep in archiveland by now. Vili 点 04:43, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Creator > Community Manager when it comes to knowing what a game is "supposed to be." ~Shard 04:52, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

I'll be honest 000, I don't know how you can twist "You know this is what we've been working for, all this time. Y'know we built Guild Wars from the ground up as a competitive game and of course this is the ultimate expression of that competition right here"...at the biggest IRL Guild Wars tournament? You'd pretty much have to destroy the English language to twist that anywhere nonsensical. But sure, I'll roll with it. First paragraph on this page "ArenaNet has stressed from the start that it intends Guild Wars to be a competitive multiplayer game.", The first question on this page and his reply completely explains how they originally designed the game to have PvP as the end-game. They built Prophecies PvE to lead you into PvP in other words, sure doesn't sound like something a non-PvP focused game would do (see: Nightfall). This is of course ignoring that CORPG in the first place means Competitive Online Role Playing Game (I have no clue where people started adding Cooperative to it, probably after Nightfall, but you can find it used by ArenaNet as Competitive as early as July of 2003. Oh yeah and he says it's built from the ground up to be a competitive game here too. inb4BUTYOUCANTWISTALLTHATEASILY. DarkNecrid 04:59, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

I won't argue that this game isn't PvP focused any more tho (and I'm OK with that so long as both sides get equal attention which rarely seems the case anymore). But to say it wasn't is definitely silly, you could easily dig up a ton of stuff from 2003-2004 (those links were the result of 2 minutes of searching) that says it was PvP focused. DarkNecrid 05:15, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Playing devil's advocate here, but keep in mind that being a "competitive" game doesn't necessarily mean being a pvp game. Perhaps they meant the game itself was competitive in the mmo market. elix Omni 05:38, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Makes no sense with the way it is worded in the articles themselves and also they called the genre "Competitive Online Role Playing Game" (CORPG) originally. :p DarkNecrid 05:53, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Yes, it would be silly to keep stubbornly addressing this as a PvE-only experience when one of the Co-founders of the company that planned, coded and built the product has stated what was the original plan for the game. But it is just as silly and stubborn to fail to recognize that the gears have shifted and now the PvE plate has more content on it than the PvP plate. I agree with DarkNecrid when he states that both aspects of the game should be there, and supported equally, Sadly, it is not. I don't do PvP. That doesn't mean I don't respect PvPers, I do, and very much, because they have tremendous ability to improvise and adapt to suddent situations. But think about it: PvErs also have to adapt themselves to an environment that changes constantly, so it is required that you have skill and willingness to adapt. Saying "PvE is a joke" or "PvP is an elitist joke" is foolish, since for each type of player, hey, they're srs bsns. -- Large 07:44, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

I don't think anyone is trying to portray this as a PvE-only experience when it is very obvious that it has a very large pvp component. I just don't think that harping on what may have been the initial intention of ArenaNet in developing GW considering what the player base has evolved into over 4+ years is really a worthwhile discussion. It's obvious to everyone that the pvp player base wishes that the original intentions of comepetive game play had been realized more fully, however, the current playerbase is, imo, heavily populated by pve style play, and as such, ArenaNet has been, and righfully so, focusing a great deal of their attention on addressing the concerns of that playerbase. Consdidering that for most of the time I have played this game the vast majority of skill changes have been focused on pvp (whether they were successful or not) and the pve playerbase has mostly had to suck up to whatever changes were made. This doesn't lessen the importance of the pvp players, but to consider "the real important part" to be GvG is just unrealistic. -- Wyn talk 09:37, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

I'd say a balanced GvG would be the the goal of Anet or atleast anet 4 years ago.Right now there are more PvE players then PvP players so yes PvE needs some love.I think the point is that PvP Shouldn't suffer from PvE changes and PvE shouldn't suffer from PvP changes.If your not experienced at PvP Don't suggest PvP changes and vice versa.Thats the whole point.Lilondra *poke* 10:17, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Unfortunately, it's not as simple as "Guys let's agree to disagree and each to his own." The fact of the matter is that the Guild Wars Live Team has so few resources (as they have had for over a year) that they cannot keep both populations happy. That doesn't mean they won't try, and kudos to them for that, but it's flat-out impossible. This- of course!- leads player populations to believe they are competing for the attention of the GW Live Team. It's one of the oldest adages in the book- the squeaky wheel gets the grease. So when people come to Linsey's feedback page to complain that the "real important part" of Guild Wars is being neglected, they're not saying "Drop everything and bow to our demands," they're saying "Hey, don't forget about us." elix Omni 10:38, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

TBH you have to pay attention to pvp till its finished.When its balanced its balanced and good to go for atleast months.PvE is a different scenario since you know it would be nice to have a different kind of HM,New Areas,... Lilondra *poke* 10:41, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

@Felix: That would be ideal, to have people come and say "Hey, don't forget about us.", but the majority of squeaky wheels come and make it sound like a demand for the Live Team to drop everything and bow. -- Large 14:04, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

And as I already said, having PvP as a final step was a mistake that was fixed by removing most PvP areas from PvP outposts and bringing them to the battle isles. PvP should always be a choice, a mode, not the 'final step'. You should be both able to play PvP only without touching PvE at all, and the other way around, and that's one of the best things GW has: YOU CAN. You can play without touching PvP at all, and you can purchase PvP packs and play PvP only. No way it should go back to as it was before. GW has a great PvP, one of the best if not THE best, but that doesn't mean that PvP is the protagonist here. Players are the protagonists here, and the choice is theirs. They can choose between PvP, PvE, both or not playing at all without being left behind the other players that keep leveling and finding more and more powerfull items. But no one should be complaining if they focus in one of the sides in a certain update. Yes, PvE needs more love, but that's because it's bigger, and PvP needs love too. You don't treat one of your kids better because he has more friends than the other one. When you have limited resources you make a list and order them from the most pressing to the least. And PvP issues where more pressing. If anyone want to complain about that, they shold direct themselves to the ones that decide which issue is more important, not to the ones that note each issue. MithTalk 17:03, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Except, here, you really do care more about the kid with more friends because he's the one making more money for you. This entire section is filled with poor logic and retardation, and, sadly enough, Shard's probably the only one making any god-damned sense. ··· Danny Pew Pew 18:08, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

You compare friends to money and don't include age,completely miss the point and then talk about nobody making sense exept shard.Perhaps its not the 12 other peeps that posted but just you.Lilondra *poke* 18:28, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

zzz anets is bæd, let's talk about it on linseys page guise –Jette 19:08, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Lil, you really are mentally handicapped, aren't you? ··· Danny Pew Pew 19:22, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

"I'll be honest 000, I don't know how you can twist"... Sorry, Dark, but I'm not twisting anything. I'm explorabling a possibility before going on a stance that it's set in stone. We, as a community, have a history of taking something the developers have said one way and having them mean it in another. Just look at the mess that Henchmen competition was, we saw the rules one way, they held them in a different light. I've seen more people say "No, it's this way you must listen to me nao!!!!" than people actually asking if we can take what one of the creators said at a PvP tournament as the truth for the entire intention of the game.

Players have a terrible history of assumption, and looking back at the recent history of assumption, "Assumption is the mother of all fuck-ups" please, excuse my language there ~~000.00.00.00~~ 20:07, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

This went from a complaint about bloodspike to everyone's opinions on the entire game. It's been done already. ~Shard 01:22, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

how maek Lillo handycap? --ilr 02:43, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

As a matter of fact I am not :> but you proly ask that to everyone who disagrees with you.On topic what are we going to do with the whole wall of text and what should Linsey actually read ? Lilondra *poke* 04:23, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

"Hey Linsey. We are really mad and bittered cus of stuff. Hexes and life stealing promote fun and interesting gameplay. Fix plox." BlazeRick 07:38, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

i think everyones life story is up there as well LOL walls of text.- Zesbeer 08:55, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Interesting story that might interest you...

I was reading Kotaku this morning and I cam across a story which strongly reminded me of the direction GW seemed to go with the introduction of Nightfall and titles. http://kotaku.com/5378724/achievements-100-percent-and-games-fun-or-compulsive-behavior

It certainly was how I felt when I quit GW. I think a lot of people would feel similar to some of those examples with their title grind for GW2 (HoM unlocks). I it is an interesting perspective on why we play games and the issues seemed familiar with the direction my GW experience went after titles were introduced. 122.111.7.5 21:13, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

I think you misunderstood that article... It wasn't commenting on the content of games becoming fun or not fun; it was about how people seem to be acting irrationally by continuing to play a game that they don't enjoy. So, it is apparent that, due to your behavior of quitting GW when you stopped enjoying it, you are not irrational. :P GW is a game that's meant to be fun. Gaining rank in titles is meant to be fun. And many people find great satisfaction in those achievements. GW is a game that offers different styles of play. You can attempt to gain the highest rank in every title, sure, but you can also test your abilities in competitions against other players, you can search for rare items to sell to other players, you can play simply to enjoy the story, etc. If you don't enjoy one aspect, it doesn't mean you can't enjoy others, and if you don't enjoy ANY aspect, then don't play, if you continue to play anyway, then, according to that article, you are exhibiting irrational behavior. --MushaTalk 21:44, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

(Edit conflict) I had the same exact reaction in Nightfall... As soon as I reached the Grande Court Sebelhk mission, it stopped being fun. I don't know if I should blame that on the Art direction, or the stupid levels of frustration from difficulty ramp-up but I definitely felt like it Forced a specific kind of playstyle or demographic appeal that was NOT universal and didn't even try to bridge over to casual players. If it wasn't for my compulsion to try and build a Drok's Runner, I never would have gone that far into Nightfall ...then Months later, Ironicaly enough, I discovered that I could have ran Droks with only the powers I got in Kourna & the Kodash meaning I didn't even NEED those end game unlocks in the first place. ...so annoying... --ilr 21:49, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

There's only so much a limited engine can do. When Anet ran out of possible things to make for missions, all they could do is to add more of the same areas, so that's what they did. Every once in awhile they came up with something different, like polymock or the norn tourney, but those are very weird mutilations of the engine. If you were in charge of GW1, you would have added titles galore too (though possibly differently). For some players, GW's replay value is pvp, but even pve has lost a lot of its replay appeal *cough* shadow form *cough*. ~Shard 02:08, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Don't forget 600hp,HB RR days and some other items.84.80.151.136 14:46, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

I personally find the HB outpost on RR days to be one of the most amusing and fun places in the game. It's basically like a live-chat version of PvX. ··· Danny Pew Pew 19:37, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

That doesn't happen to me. I was exploring everything and getting all skills before titles for them were added, XD. I even have one character with all skills, even if there is no title for that. I find completion quite fun. Metroid, Castlevania, Zelda... exploring everywhere and getting all items it's always quite fun, and many times rewarding when it comes to health and power boosts. But when something it's just a number like with Sweet Tooth... well... I can't care about it as much as something with real use. Hey, when I reveal the map I get to see the map uncovered, when I acquire a skill I can use it later and try many different builds with them. What do I get when I max sweet tooth? Diabetes? XD MithTalk 00:28, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Well...that definitely sounds compulsive.... Karate Jesus 01:32, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Lol live chat pvx. that sounds scary --adrin 05:49, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Enjoying completion is not compulsive. Needing completion is. I didn¡t play to get all those skills, I got all those skills while playing. MithTalk 16:25, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

The kind of article linked above have been among the most fascinating ones for years because players know what this is all about, but yet, a part of ourselves ( or would it be a part of the community ? )allow the MMO devs to continue on this easy, but tragic way. Fact is, when you ask players if they really enjoy what they do in the game, the answer is often no. Somehow, these two goals: reaching the largest audience and promoting fun, but still clever play, seems to be incompatible. Bad players can improve themselves if they got some feedback from the game other than death on what they did right/wrong so that they dont give up at the first difficulty and go for shadow form, the easiest and always more profitable way. The devs can change that, we cant. Yseron - 90.28.210.154 13:16, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

It's not irrational to do something that makes you feel better. Even if that happens to be relief from compulsion. That sort of fun is why so many enjoy grind, and so few will admit it. (Compulsion being seen as shameful).

It's not surprising Anet tried to satsfy such customers; they are the traditional market for crpgs. Just look at WEoWs succes. Backsword 13:36, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Code=15

Anything happening? --Cursed Angel 17:28, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

nope they just havent fixed it again this time everyone is again RRing, they didnt remove quest,HB, or given players dishonouner they have done nothing again.84.80.151.136 17:32, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Add code 13s, 200s, etc. to that. The servers can't support RR day. I'm seriously concerned about the Halloween and Wintersday finales if they can't even handle 60 districts. Karate Jesus 19:28, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Generally the main centers in PvE have been able to handle far more than 60 districts. It would be that there is a smaller limit (?) on that one particular area of the game? ~~000.00.00.00~~ 19:46, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Im testing it, and ive been standing in FA, a VERY low population area, for a couple hours, and i get code 15 almost every time. Someone fix this or SOMETHING, i wanna do my old z quests. Da Sonic Sunday 19:50, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Entering and leaving battles repeatedly probably puts more strain on the server than a bunch of people hanging around chatting.

Sonic, what exactly do you propose they do? Shut down the HB servers so people aren't spamming the server with transfer requests? -- Armond Warblade{{Bacon}} 19:52, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

WTF is RR'ing? Is that like AB'ing? links pl0x --ilr 19:53, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Are you serious? If so, it's Hero Battles Zquest day. Otherwise known as Red Resign Day (RR day). The act of Red Resigning is referred to as RRing. Karate Jesus 20:01, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Yes... I can understand your shock at learning that somewhere; there are still a couple 'pve'ers' left who don't go out of their way to fuck up PvP just to farm copperZ. Thank You in any case for the quick Def --ilr 20:06, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Actually, I was just surprised that a wiki'er didn't know. I didn't know if you primarily PvE'd or PvP'd. Hope I cleared that up. Karate Jesus 20:09, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

There are also some people who still haven't HBd. ~Shard 20:12, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Btw, i dont mean neccesarily shutting it down, but maybe make the space HB's taking up not be the entire set of servers. Maybe leave some space for other gamers. Limit the # of districts to like 30 or so. Da Sonic Sunday 20:13, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

I tried to HB a few times. But after 5 consecutive fights or so being insulted for not /rolling, I got a little bored and left for good. I tried again when they removed /roll, but they switched to the color thing and got bored again. I have 8 Commander points from actual fights, though, XD. MithTalk 20:37, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

I'm shocked, Mith, you actually play the game as opposed to finding the shortest, least play-iest way of doing something. Got that <censored> out! O.O >:) ^_^ ~~000.00.00.00~~ 20:40, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

I actually enjoy HB and the ironic thing is that RR day is what got me involved in it. I'm almost r2 and most of that is from normal playing (I don't RR much. I just got r3 Zaishen and I'm going for r4). Karate Jesus 20:43, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

I've never done it, it looks so boring, but then again, I say that about most GW things nowadays. -- Tha Reckoning 20:47, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] The new henchmen skins

Hello Linsey,

Some of the recently added henchmen have some new, never before seen skins, for example: Haldibarn Earendul, Rollo Lowlo and Adepte. Did you design these exclusively for these henchmen or were they leftovers from EotN or perhaps Utopia?

Thanks. - Mini Me talk 19:09, 4 November 2009

Curiosity seconded. | 72 {U|T|C} 20:52, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Adepte appears to have normal White Mantle armor (ex:Justiciar Thommis). I could be wrong, but that's what it looks like to me. Karate Jesus 21:00, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

I think Regina once stated that these were assets designed but never used in the game. They just pulled them out from a deep deep hidden folder. Just like Nick. Also, yeah, Adepte's armor looks a lot like a White Mantle Justiciar armor -- Large 21:04, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Adepte is a female White Mantle Justiciar, so it would look a lot like it, but it is the only female WM warrior. -- Konig/talk 21:11, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Adepte was a LionsArch Door Greeter... it says so in 'er own dialog. --ilr 21:16, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Invisible Pony

I am trying to find out if Mad King Thorn actually does have an invisible pony as the Mad King's Steward led me to believe. If this is the case, then I definitely believe that players should also be able to get ponies. I understand that invisible ponies are very rare, and probably unique to the Mad King; but I would be very happy with just a visible pony. While there are probably elitists in the game that would insist on invisibility, I'm sure many other players feel the same way that I do. Thank you for the Halloween quests, the laughs, the fun, and most of all thank you in advance for the new ponies. 70.129.45.70 20:49, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

I would like to clarify something: Thorn thinks he has an invisible pony. Doesn't mean he has one. ;) -- Konig/talk 21:15, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Thorn also thinks something odd is happening in the Underworld, and he's absolutely right. King Thorn, he's a smart fella. Did you notice how many of the Rock/Paper/Scissors games he won? 70.129.45.70 21:25, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

I think how it was written shows that there is no invisible pony ("My undead liege has detected ominous changes in the Underworld. He believes some ancient power is at work... But then, the Mad King thinks he has an invisible pony, too."), i.e., the Steward is saying that Thorn thinks something is wrong, but he is also insane and thinks that there are things that exist, when they actually don't. -- Konig/talk 21:31, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

I don't see how Konig can claim to know what it has got in its pocketses. It's always dark in LA when the Mad King appears -- not like the pony would leave a shadow.70.129.45.70 22:21, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

deeeeeeeeeerp –Jette 22:59, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

(edit conflict)Huh? I'm just stating that the wording highly implies that there is no invisible pony - after all, Thorn is the Autumn Lunatic, the Mad King, he's insane. And what do you mean by "what it has got in its poketses"? -- Konig/talk 23:03, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

LotR quote, you fail at being a nerd. -- Tha Reckoning 23:29, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

I don't have much love for LotR, to be honest. Tolkin messed up Norse myths (now, I don't mean that the myths were messed up because elves and dwarves are not the same, I mean Tolkin messed up the myths because too many people think elves and the like are more like Tolkin's representation than what they originally were). Similar reason why I dislike Warcraft. -- Konig/talk 00:01, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

To be fair, the Norse probably messed up someone else's lore. 74.50.104.2 00:21, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

I'm not familiar with norse mythology, but I like the storyline. -- Tha Reckoning 00:22, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Norse mythology is some of the coolest mythology out there! And nobody ever said that Tolkien was using Norse mythology as a foundation for his storieses. That's why his stories are so cool, cause he came up with his own mythology, creation myth, languages, etc. But Konig is right about how the dialogue does imply that the invisible pony doesn't actualy exist. If you ever get one, though, let me know! --MushaTalk 02:17, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Well, regarding the Norse mythos and Tolkin(not mythology, which means study of myths), while the story isn't based off of it (though some claim that the story of Bilbo and the dragon is a reference to Beowulf and his dragon), the world is - "middle earth" aka Midgard, elves, dwarves, the rings of power - all that is of Norse origin. Those things taken from Norse myths are very similar (but not perfectly similar) to the Norse version. But this isn't the time nor place. Well, place.-- Konig/talk 02:33, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

How do you know that you don't already have an invisible pony? purple llama 04:19, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

I have one. It's a vicious little thing that only becomes visible when eating your face. Do you see it yet? *Conjure Phantasm* How 'bout now? Draxynnic 06:48, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Ha! The Steward makes pie and grooms the invisible pony. While the steward CAN groom an invisible pony he COULD NOT groom a non-existent pony. There Konig, now we have proof. The pony is real. The pie is real. You can decide for yourself about the cake.70.129.45.70 21:04, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

• grooms the air* I'm grooming an non-existent invisible pony, what you talking about? :P On a serious note, this dialogue does seem to indicate it being real, though I still doubt it. He could just be saying it because he has to groom something on Thorn's orders. Linsey - confirmation please? -- Konig/talk 21:17, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

If the Mad King would say to you "Groom my Invisible Pony, now!" would you decline? Regardless? I think not. — Poki#3 (talk) 00:17, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

LOL. This post is over the top! --MushaTalk 00:57, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Depends, Poki. Did he precede it with "Mad King Says"? :P Draxynnic 01:14, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Im starting to remember seeing a scarey horse in the sky during last years halloween event....Mad king gets a mount...awesome cool. Not forgetting MAD is his name and if hes going to pay me to groom an invisible horse then i would for the ectos --Smithy-Star 01:27, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Conclusion to Halloween quest line?

Hi Linsey, nice to see your page unlocked again and thank you for all the Halloween fun. Now according to Regina, the 5th (and final?) Halloween quest could not make the cut during the time of the holiday because of bugs? Will Halloween stay up until this 5th quest is resolved? Or will it be resolved outside this 5th quest, or perhaps during another holiday (Wintersday?) Thanks for your response Linsey, and thanks again for the joyous Halloween this year :D --Malchior Devenholm 23:09, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

And why do you keep bashing my bubbles!? First, I thought the halloween quests would be available until Monday night at midnight, not Sunday night--why go to the effort of saying Nov. 2 at 12:01 am (Really? the first minute of the day?) instead of Nov. 1 at midnight. Then later that day, the skeles return to the underworld! But the Mad King's steward is nowhere to be found. But alas! The Mad King's Steward comes back! yay! Oh dangitall! He's not giving me my "Every little bit helps" quest. Yargh... I'm still 4,000 party points away from Life of the party! I need my ToT bags! lol ~Mervil 02:17, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

You should be more grateful than that Merv! :P And I am very anxious to learn the conclusion as well! Did the UWSCers cause Dhuum to break free and we get to put him back? Or did he break free to create a new subquest in the UW? Is his influence going to spread to other realms? Please tell us! Or please tell us when we will find out. Thank you for all of this Halloween excitement! --MushaTalk 02:26, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

I believe the reasoning for 12:01 am instead of 12:00 am is a lot of people get confused about which day midnight belongs to, and if 12 am is midnight or noon. Perhaps 11:59 pm would be better, to keep it on the same day, but then we'd miss one event! purple llama 04:15, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

On a related topic, I'd like to express thanks for getting the new content in. The second quest got a little more frustrating than I think it really needed to (it was actually fairly easy once you got the hang of it, but getting there... O.O Some hex removal really would have helped...) but on the whole the new quests (and associated lore) were fun to experience. Looking forward to the finale, if there's one in the works! Draxynnic 06:55, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] New Content?

Hi Linsey! I am curious to know if you/the dev team are planning any new content for GW. I recall that when the BMP was released we were told that it was the goal of the dev team to produce new content every so often. Is this still true? If so, what is meant by new content? New quests? New heroes? And what are the chances of something very significant, like another bonus pack, or even a new campaign or expansion? :D Thank you. --MushaTalk 02:49, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

You didn't like the new H'ween quests? I thought that was fun and exciting new content. Plus: itt was a sneaky way to get peeps like me who were a'fear'd of the UW to visit.   — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 03:04, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

New Content? I think we got plenty of these, don't you? I expect more as well. In the same fashion. -- Konig/talk 03:17, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Oh, I'm well aware of the new content released to date. :D And I've loved everything! I guess I am mainly curious about MAJOR content. Stuff that you'd have to pay for, like a new expansion or something resembling the BMP. --MushaTalk 03:56, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

That new epic-level content is currently running under the code name, Guild Wars 2. ;-)   — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 03:58, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Yes, yes, I knew somebody was going to mention that. But I'm asking about GW 1. Is there any such new content in the mix for GW 1? --MushaTalk 04:02, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

it is very unlikely that we are going to see a new expatiation. the live team is just to small for a project that large.- Zesbeer 04:05, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

I wouldn't expect a new expansion, due to it being said GW1 won't get any. Though, eventually, the Live Team may eventually be expanded to a point where new expansions could be made. However, with GW2, I wouldn't expect such, sadly (splitting the player base wouldn't be that wise, and more or less, people will be more drawn to GW2 anyways). -- Konig/talk 04:36, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] fire the canon cannon

Are the gw.dat descriptions for certain outposts, zones, etc. considered "canon?" By that I mean the little snippets we get from the .dat file but are never found in-game, such as the description for Ar'Challah and the Harvestman's Lair. I'd like to think that they are, but some sort of confirmation would be good. The majority of our Landmark articles contain information unearthed through .dat scraping, but if that information is not accurate, then we should remove it. If you have to decide that right now, as I said, I like them... –Jette 04:38, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

p.s., will we be allowed to do wacky crap on the test crew server, like use /.fireworks, summon monsters and try to solo the deep as Mallyx? Because that was like half the reason I signed up.

ppss, can I have a mini nightmare? You guys have taken way too long to make one. You don't even have to scale down a model, just make it a Tears of Dwayna. Don't make only 10 of them or something, though, that's just gay alternative lifestyle. –Jette 06:48, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

He you need to test stuff itn't for getting stuff you can't get in guildwars:S, but Yes I think you can instandly go to mallyx etc if somesort of build needs to be tested at mallyx I guess. But getting minipets or everlasting fireworks/summons makes no sense its a test server not a Have More Fun For Free Server. Death Sligher 14:42, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

WTS stupid mandrogo imps... SRSLY, this year I got 6 bday presents... half of them were imps. 2 Others were Other-Kirin(F.U.I'maDragonHorse) and Hydra which I already had. Does everyone get redundant minis like that or is it just me? Oh and yah, emo nightmares would be rather win actually. ...(not that I'd ever get one)... and I'd take it with me everytime I went out to farm its big brothers in these scenic locations. PS: make Kimmes let us map-travel to these places plz, he was a big meany head about it the last time we asked him. --ilr 02:49, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

i got 6 imps out 7 presents --Nick123 11:56, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

FFS ...new RNG pl0x, devs --ilr 20:43, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

I would love to know if the descriptions and names found in the gw.dat are cannon or not. Especially Harvestman's Lair and The Spider's Heart. Though I'm sure many things were scrapped projects such as Abaddon's Dead Children. And for those which can be confirmed to be cannon, I'd like to know if they've been found correctly (as myself and others tried to find the landmarks from the GW.dat). -- Konig/talk 03:27, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Have More Fun For Free Server

^we need one(or more) - Wuhy 22:44, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

Then minipets and consumables etc have no sense anymore... comon.Death Sligher 17:39, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Lol,YH Only the top players have minipets and consumables right now ! Defo a real indicator that someone is good! Ow boy we rly need to keep that at value Lilondra 05:45, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

i CAN HAZ MINNIPOOT FRM EBAY NAO?? --ilr 07:17, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] give us a button

to remove click to move, also make click to target easier pl0x - Wuhy 15:20, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Wut? If you go and press F11 you can disable "click to move" feature by checking "Disable mouse walking". Also, you can Tab the enemies for easier targeting. Unless I failed to grasp the core of your request. -- Large 15:30, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

why the fuck I did not notice that for ages? k here is another one: we need an ingame guild recruitment NPC so that its easier for guilds and players to find each other :O - Wuhy 15:35, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Oh oh! Here is another one! Create your own feedback space and put your ideas there instead of trying to bug Linsey directly whenever you have a new idea. I would also like it if we could fly, so if you are reading this Linsey please give us functional wings. A pony would be lovely too. Maybe a winged pony. A winged pony that can breathe fire. Or acid. Or acidic fire. Misery 15:40, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

that is not original at all Misery-.- the pony was already requested above! - Wuhy 15:42, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

You want to create a NPC that lists every single guild in existence? Repeat that in your head and see what it sounds like. -- Tha Reckoning 18:21, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

I think i would rather have the acidic fire breathering flying pony though. -- Salome 18:25, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

That did sound cool lol -- Tha Reckoning 18:26, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

nope reckoning, not at all, I'd like an NPC where ppl can give some details about their guild+who they are looking for and the game could automatically fill in other info such as member count, rank, rating, alliance, gh etc etc.. there would be categories like pve:farming/titles/SC/whatever and pvp:gvg/ha/ab/codex, you could advertise your guild for a 500g fee there and it lasts a week, but you can cancel it if you want.. same thing for players.. I'm saying that the live team should add features like this not shitty content updates like codex arena/zaishen daily crap - Wuhy 18:46, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Large, is there anything similar to tabbing through enemies for allies? E.g. tabbing through allies? 65.207.54.194 19:30, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Tabbing is too slow and clicking is too hard. Clicking people is the best way to prot (and heal, too, really), and that gets stupidly hard in HA. It's one thing when you've got a group you're familiar with and you can button-target 1-8 just by looking at the character, but when you've got a group with a few pugstars in it (or even a full-on pug), you might as well be redbarring at that point.

I think the best fix would be commands for "target foe nearest to cursor" and "target ally nearest to cursor". is for Raine, etc. 19:58, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

(Edit conflict) You mean this? No? Then go into your Options panel, check Controls and check the whole "Targeting" section at the bottom. There are places for "Party Member - x" (x being the number in the party window, from 1 to 12), "Party Member - Next", "Party Member - Previous" and so on. — Poki#3 (talk) 20:02, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

@Wuhy: I don't know about Codex, 'cause I don't PvP, but Zaishen Quests are an extraordinary tool to re visit places that fell dead because of times. This helps newcomers,and also helps title hunters. I do not consider that a "shitty content update", but then again, no one is supposed to agree with me. Or you, for that matter. Bottom line is, this is clearly stepping on the grounds of Suggestions, so I'd say you should go ahead and create one and follow the rules there. PS: I do think that the NPC you request is not needed. -- Large 20:19, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

"also helps title hunters" I think you're on to something there, Sherlock. NuVII 20:27, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Agreed. Zaishen coins are not terribly useful, but a crowd of hundreds of people passing through the mission/bounty location each day, with no thought but to do it as well as they can, as fast as they can, as teamworky as they can, in HM? Fuck yes! | 72 {U|T|C} 20:37, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

"but Zaishen Quests are an extraordinary tool to re visit places that fell dead because of times. This helps newcomers,and also helps title hunters." truth to be told, no, they are boring, repetitive and pointless. "if you do RA today you get extra zkeys GO GO" what is the fucking point? - Wuhy 20:40, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

It means that for 24 hours you get only two average No Opposings per match compared to like five? I like that. Vili 点 20:41, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

"I think the best fix would be commands for "target foe nearest to cursor" and "target ally nearest to cursor"." basically this is what I'm saying but without the command part, you enable it and it always targets the nearest target to your cursor when you left click(and you can enable to target foes or allies) - Wuhy 20:44, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

This IS a suggestion. Wuhy, do it right, or don't do it at all. Go to Feedback:Getting started and create your user feedback page. Then you can make all the stupid suggestions you want, and all of you can discuss them there to your hearts content without bloating Linsey's page with this... -- Wyn talk 20:55, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Wow...um, or that could have been said in a kind, appropriate manner. Such as: "Wuhy, this is a suggestion and Linsey's talk page is not the place for suggestions. Please go to the Feedback:Getting started and create your feedback page so you can suggest this to Anet. Good luck and I hope that resolves any problems here." Karate Jesus 21:01, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Umad? 1-10

true, KJ but wyn is an asshole, so that is not an option - Wuhy 21:06, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

ps. wyn, nobody cares about my feedback page, if I want to get shit discussed and actually READ, then I'm gonna post it here. - Wuhy 21:08, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Well, that's technically also inappropriate. Just make a feedback thing and let this section die. I think Wyn has gotten enough grief lately (particularly from me). And, apparently Anet staff do read the feedback, and that's all that matters, right? Karate Jesus 21:09, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

@Wuhy, keep posting suggestions here and you will be blocked. -- Wyn talk 21:10, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Tbh, Wyn, you provoked it. Either way, time to move on :D Karate Jesus 21:11, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Ah HAH! I done told All ya'll she was gonna drop the hammer at some point here. ...and I hope she do, b/c it's been too long since the last epic rubber b&'ing round here... --ilr 22:22, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Isn't the point of Admins to make this wiki a well-oiled machine as opposed to scaring other users into being scared of posting due to the fact that they go against scary admins?

"nobody cares about my feedback page, if I want to get shit discussed and actually READ, then I'm gonna post it here." - evidence that Wuhy knew better and posted anyway. Others did tell him politely to take it to his own feedback page and he continued to discuss it as if they had said nothing. Frankly, I think wyn was right in moving past niceties, it's not like she called him an asshole or anything. (Satanael | talk) 21:46, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Just because aggression is passive doesn't mean it isn't aggression. Both were wrong, both have stopped posting, time to move on. Karate Jesus 21:48, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

satanael, did you notice that wyn "moved past niceties" before "I posted anyway"? ;D - Wuhy 22:07, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

as much as I like Wyn most of the time, she is the Queen of Passive Agression Land. ··· Danny Pew Pew 21:09, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaah BlazeRick 22:18, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

TBH,even if its the "ethical" thing to do you can't expect Wyn to be kind all the time.If you have asked it kindly several times you will eventually run out of patience (wether it takes longer or not you will eventually reach that point) and say it in a "less appropriate way".Wyn is not a robot and you can't expet her to be immune to frustration.Wuhy all you've done lately is been a pain in the ... neck and B*** about being banned yet you haven't changed a bit.I'm just saying you should stop being so childish , grow up and go along with the rules.Even if you don't think they are right,because you know ... its a wiki so you should try to not frustrate the F*** out of everyone Lilondra 11:30, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

I thought you were against pointless bureaucracy, Lil. You disappoint me. Koda Kumi 12:51, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Koda stop talking start bowing ! You Ignorant .... :p Lilondra 06:58, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

can anyone tell me what the fuck lilondra is talking about? is he trolling me? I don't get it :/ I bitched about being banned? what? where? - Wuhy 15:47, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Hacked Account Relief Fund

Hi Linsey, In light of the recent rash of account hacks, and the sheer amount of stuff that was stolen, especially from veteran players who have spent the better part of 4-5 years building up their stash, I was wondering if it would be possible to set up some system whereby the rest of the community can donate gold and in-game items to those who have been hit by the RMT's and Gold Farmers. Naturally, we want to maintain the security of accounts, and we just don't want anybody coming up asking for donations. But I am hoping we can establish a way for players to come to the aid of those who have lost everything and have no means of re-building their inventory without starting completely from scratch.

Perhaps we can set something up like those "adopt a family" programs that start running this time of year. My local radio station does this by having their personalities read off the wants and needs of a family once an hour. They refer to the family by a code, such as Family N37. And you simply log on to their web site and can view what Family N37 needs and find out where you can donate those items. This is just off the cuff thinking, but I hope that there is something we can do to allow the community to come together to help out those players who have been devastated by these "people," especially in terms of getting back some of those rare; hard to acquire; and/or one-time-only type of items. I would hate to see many of these players leave the game simply because of the despicable nature of these RMTs. HanokOdbrook 11:26, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

← moved to Feedback talk:User/HanokOdbrook/Hacked Account Relief Ideas

[edit] "Funny thing"

Well since the UWsc nerf, the price of ecto has been goeing up.

Now for the "funny part", the Ambraces and high-end items stayed the same. For example if an Ambrace was 45e before, they still are now. Oh wait... the casual gamer doesn't exist and/or shouldn't get those items... right.

Ow yeah, you might of heard of FoWsc, fastest run I know of is 17 minutes. Is that beeing nerfed a year after it becomes popular aka. to late? Ahh and don't forget the 12 minute run for The Deep and the 15 minute Urgoz run, but hmmm... those aren't popular so you are gonna give them a pass... where does this common sense come from? Not very consistent is it?

Anyway, why not make areas like UW, DoA, etc... more accessible to the more casual player and/or less popular professions?

I still like the game but i'm growing tired of everything popular getting nerfed, changed, etc... everything is getting slower.

So everyone who likes things taking ages to do and/or get pls put your hands up. Qaletaqa Hania 20:49, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

← moved to Feedback talk:User/Qaletaqa/Elite Areas

You're absolutely right. I'm so sick of guildwars requiring people to actually have skill and play the game instead of running a gimmicky invincibility build. I think guildwars should eliminate all skills for all professions and give everyone just 1 skill "permanent invincibility - costs no energy, instantly casts and instantly recharges, lasts forever - user is invincible; all attacks and spells fail, and user can not be targeted by anyone or anything and all damage, lifestealing, or otherwise is converted to healing." That way everyone can do everything quickly, without skill, and reap the rewards of guildwars without actually having to play the game. Sounds like a lot of fun. 65.207.54.194 15:32, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

About the ecto's getting more expensive and Ambraces staying at same price well... I think they should have nerfed UW bit by bit so the ecto's gradually rise in price and that the ambraces and other items get the chance to drop in price (talking about the amount of ecto those items cost). I'm not gonna explain my logic behind that.

And euhm... I think you missed the point, I didn't explain myself very well and I understand why you think I like having UWsc, I don't. But if they nerf one spot that can be done to fast they should nerf others to.

Also people pls don't respond here anymore goto Feedback talk:User/Qaletaqa/Elite Areas Qaletaqa Hania 16:45, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Skill Update

We need one Karate Jesus 17:16, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Don't rush 'em, or we'll end up with something like sway again... Oh wait... King Neoterikos 20:26, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Or bspik-OHWAIT. Karate Jesus 20:31, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Why haven't we heard anything about a skill update? No reasoning as to why it's late, or when it will be now. We're more than two thursdays into the 2nd month since we heard bi-monthly. I havent seen anything posted by any devs. Why is the community in the dark right now? ~>Sins WDB 20:35, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Don't worry karate, they'll do the bi-monthly skill update eventually (maybe by Christmas). And at least they'll pretend to try to change things since it's a PVP problem. Granted they'll do something like extend a recharge time that in no way stops people from running the gimmick becuase they're too cowardly to effectively moderate and balance the game, but hey, what can you do?65.207.54.194 20:37, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Guru link shows something called metagame, HA has always been a farm spot and low ranked GvG has always been a joke. lol way to create another QQ-gw-is-bad section kj. -Cursed Angel 20:51, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Oh snap, looks like this genius got you good, KJ. ··· Danny Pew Pew 21:17, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Hahaha, WTH's that? Ppl don't actually win ranked matches /w stuff like that, do they? --ilr 21:00, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Yup, they do. And, um, CA. I know you're all "Grrr, I'm angry!" all the time, but we all know what metagame is. And btw, that wasn't HA...that was a higher ranked GvG. Not low ranked. Meta is meta, but stagnant meta is >.< Karate Jesus 21:28, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

First thread was hilariously filled with people who didn't know what they were talking about. Recommended. Misery 21:39, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

^ welcome to GWGuru.... Karate Jesus 21:40, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

The quality of commentators in this current thread, however, is not proving to be much better. ··· Danny Pew Pew 21:41, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Careful... Douchebaggery is a bannable offense now...sysops's words, not mine) --ilr 21:48, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

By implicating that my comment was intentional douchebaggery, would that make you a douchebag? (If it does, that would paradoxically make me one, as well, for pointing it out in any case.) ··· Danny Pew Pew 21:54, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

I NOE, RITE? Policies distinguishing dick moves by PA'ing users as dicks FTW! --ilr 21:58, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Let's skip the sweet talk and just ban everybody. -- Tha Reckoning 02:29, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

I know you're all like "guild wars is important!" but the neverending baawwwing doesn't really accomplish anything. It just kinda makes you look like a moron. -Cursed Angel 13:07, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Oh? If you're in the mood to piss money into the wind with no complaint, can I go ahead and get a blank signed check? -- Tha Reckoning 13:22, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Like this^ You probably haven't payed for shit since eotn, which was over 2 years ago. -Cursed Angel 14:59, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Meh, I suggest that we stop filling this section up with bitching, so that when Linsey reads it she doesn't have to wade through the bullshit in order to understand how people feel. Not that I'm telling anyone what to do. I'm just thinking that construction comments would probably be more useful to Linsey than this shit. Karate Jesus 16:44, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

In order to spare Linsey that, she would have to not read the section at all, KJ. Erasculio 17:53, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Okay CA, you're right. I want you to go take out a loan and not pay it for two years. Let me know how that goes. -- Tha Reckoning 18:47, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Interestingly enough, this is a valid tangent right now. The game's sales figures from Q3 reports went down 1100 units from previous quarter. ...that's 20%. So whatever happened from July through September... definitely wasn't instilling confidence in the playerbase. Meanwhile Anet's operating cost just keeps climbing (even though they didn't declare it this time around) --ilr 20:50, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Oh, so you mean the existing playerbase would not be buying new copies of a game they already have thanks to the lack of a skill balance update? Right. I wonder if Linsey would mind if someone archived this section, rotten cheese has a bad smell. Erasculio 22:09, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

kj would baaaww if his valuable construction comments got archived. -Cursed Angel 22:13, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Heh, funny how people get so irate when such and such doesn't get nerfed. Yes people they are OP and they are degenerative. Either adapt to beat it or quit GvG for 2 months. Your call.--Malchior Devenholm 23:42, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Don't you mean two years? -- Tha Reckoning 23:58, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

"the Game"? Not sure how observant you really are... but there is multiple pieces making up "the Game" including microtransactions as well(new char slots, etc). New players are flowing in constantly but they don't bother getting the other chapters or unlocks when the community says its end-game is dying. --ilr 08:49, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Ah, of course. I'm sure the number of game units being sold (which doesn't mention microtransactions such as character slots and etc, but then again I guess it would take someone "observant" to realize that) is falling thanks to the whining vocal minority (or should it be vocal trio?) instead of being thanks to how unlikely it is someone looking for a new MMORPG would seek a game at best three years old (not to mention the loss of XTH making less people buy extra accounts for the free gold). Really, ilr, have you ever thought about working on Wall Street? Such as great insight for business, I'm sure you would be all the rage there. Erasculio 09:10, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Tbh, archive it if you want. All I'm seeing at this point is "Ew, this smells bad" and "Bawwww" and "KJ will this, KJ will that". I was trying to point out that I, and a few other GW players, feel that the game is in desperate need of a skill update by pointing out a few of the reasons. If that's what Eras and CA consider "whining" , then by all means archive the section. Karate Jesus 02:41, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

"All I'm seeing at this point is "Ew, this smells bad" and "Bawwww"" - I would then suggest reading something other than this. Erasculio 08:41, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

The GvG meta isn't that bad, it could be better but it's been a lot worse in recent memory. HA has and always will be gimmicky because of the mechanics and types of players that are attracted to it. However, one last nerfing of the idiotic R/A template would help HA. I listed some ideas on my page, they're probably dumb but like anet ever listens to us anyway :) Zen` 06:19, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Nerf both FC and Expert, done. It should be applied 4 years ago.--TeaCat._. 08:33, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

mesmers are gimmickry by definition <.< 128.176.178.20 10:32, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Eras, you are truly the most assholyish asshole on this site. Congrats! From now on, I plan on ignoring practically every contribution you make, because....well, there's just no value in reading them for me anymore *shrug* Karate Jesus 16:24, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Oh noes, more "Bawwww"! Erasculio 16:27, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Freaking owned. On another note; I don't think the Live Team needs to be reminded that we're due a skill update. --smøni 16:44, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

<sadface> I'm gonna ignore you! Because.... Well.... Because you disagree with me and I can't argue with people who disagree! </sadface> -Cursed Angel 17:11, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

You know CA, if you keep your mouth shut, that kind of stuff stops coming out. The taste might even go away. Anyways, this is off topic enough, let's just wait for a response, instead of bloating it further. -- Tha Reckoning 17:51, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

GG on letting yourself get trolled like that... --ilr 20:58, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

This section is pretty cute. :> ··· Danny Pew Pew 19:47, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

^ :D. I got to make a fancy page from it...but I got in trouble...:/ Karate Jesus 21:13, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Okaaaay. I think that's quite enough trolling/trollbaiting for now. NuVII 21:22, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Who cares? Doesn't matter if you troll it or not, she still won't answer until she is ready and that could be a while... she will answer when she answers, kinda like GW2.

She will probably answer when the Dhuum quest line is done. I assume there's a better reason for it being delayed than late-night partying by the staff. –Jette 05:36, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Yepp, assuming is all we can do when they put the complete lid on for several weeks :)

- Kherec 22:41, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Ooooooo I would kill to find out when the waiting game will be over! :D --MushaTalk 03:17, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Well thank god we're going to have two HA double weekends in a row filled with idiot swayers so important quest work can be completed =/ Zen` 18:09, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

PvE: Serious Business. is for Raine, etc. 18:45, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Two halls resets so far today on double fame weekend to fix bugs in PvE. Put THAT in your PvP and smoke it. is for Raine, etc. 04:24, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Sneaky aren't you?

Updating the quest in what is the middle of the night for everyone else? Very sneaky ninja-Linsey, very sneaky. I approve. Katherinezoltin 04:47, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

← moved to User_talk:Ilr

[edit] bd dhuum questline.

Congratulations! You have completed a new quest line and added NEW content to guild wars.

But there is a little problem.

You can only fight dhuum if you have completed UW. Which was 1-2 hours with a semi-ursanway. 3 hours with normal balanced. Then you have to put up a half-an-hour fight with the god in order to do the quest. It is kind of OK because its a master/elite quest. BUT therein lies a problem: This whole quest line promotes the still non-nerfed UWSC! and the abuse of shadow form. On another side note we haven't got a single skill update for 2 months. Not a single skill, WHILE there are many problems out there. --Boro 13:20, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

It's no longer a speed clear tbh. - Mini Me talk 14:13, 20 November 2009

It's invincibility and it's still considered as the only way of doing UW. AND WHY? Because it's INVINCIBILITY!!! you are immune to even Dhuum's skills. AND WHY? BECAUSE It's not nerfed to the ground. It's as bad in PvE as Bloodspike in PvP. Yet none of these arenanet people seem to realize that invincibility is bad, ruins new content, especially badly designed content. Also Invincibility is worse than bad if it's only reachable for a single class. We are waay overdue of the bimonthly's schelude zeroskill update. And what did we get between updates? Henchmen with builds specifically designed for heroes or taken from meta DIRECTLY, Codex arena that has the meta of blindbots 1/2 of the time thanks to "careful implementation", Halloween with Run->Run->Farm->Farm questline. and Finally dhuum who has dhuumb as hell skills. And thanks to the wonderful community relations, we still don't have an indication if they ever wanted to have an update around this day because whenever the "skill update" topic gets posted you and regina mysteriously avoid posting in that topic, in order to make us "feel connected". GG! Seriously: What were you thinking Arenanet? --Boro 15:04, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Wow, take a chill pill bro. It's only a game. - Mini Me talk 15:07, 20 November 2009

@ Boro: I know a good Psych.. Serious, what are you thinking? -- Cyan 15:10, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Look! They agreed to do something about shadow form. They stated that they would change areas to be non-farmable with Sform. And What did we end up having? Dhuum killed with 6 A/D autoattackers and 2 monks. Try to find any consistency in it. I have tried but no avail. --Boro 15:19, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

That can be, but the people who do that choose for that.. They are not forced to do that. Let them, and try something else if it bother you so much.. -- Cyan 15:25, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Btw, Boro is right about at least one thing. People are UWSC'ing again. And some of the times are lol. Karate Jesus 15:48, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Last I heard these "speed" clears took an hour or something. Or is it faster now? - Mini Me talk 15:50, 20 November 2009

It's faster now. Last I heard was 30 mins. And now people are trying to figure out how to do NM with heroes, and apparently it may be possible (not to SC, but to actually do). Anyone reminded of Hero Mallyxway? Karate Jesus 15:54, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

"You can choose not to use Shadow Form" is the lamest reply i've ever heard... - J.P.Talk 15:58, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Come on! you can choose not to start GW! 194.2.20.67 16:15, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Thank you J.P. -- Cyan 16:28, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

If it was meant to address perma clearing UW; the whole Dhuum thing failed miserably. It's harder for normal PuGs to clear UW than it was before which will likely stratify people into mobway groups even harder. The only reasonable way to do this with balanced is to take your friends or guild along. I appreciate content updates in a dying game and I'm sure I'll enjoy this here, but the content didn't address the core problem, maintainable invincibility with Shadow Form. I for one would like to see SF brought in line with other tanking skills like Obsidian Flesh for example. The way to fix Shadow Form is to fix Shadow Form, not to put in a bunch of monsters that can hit through its protection. Aevar talk contribs 18:41, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Linsey I know you've heard htis enough now but I'd just like to mention that I like the effort.But it saddens me that you fail to make the right decisions Lilondra 18:59, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

boro is spot on, this is pathetic.. - Wuhy 20:57, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

I said it countless times. But either someone doesn't understand, or also wants to use Shadow Form as is it. When the problem is the skill, if you change the area, you fix nothing. Shadow Form is not just a gimmick skill that works in a couple of places or elite areas. I repeat. Shadow Form IS NOT A NICHE FARMING SKILL. It makes you invulnerable to the two main sources of damage enemies have, and can be maintained permanently. If you count where it works and were it doesn't, you get a waaaay bigger number for the places it works, and most of the elite areas are included. What is more practical? Check every single area in which Shadow Form works and add counters, or change Shadow Form so it stops being a quasi-godmode skill? I'm still waiting to be able to find a team for SoO HM without leeching an assassin team, paying runners or without everyone dying on me on the last fight. Ursan was a problem because it was overused, but it at least let everyone in. But Shadow Form doesn't. Everyone can make an assassin, but why should everyone HAVE to play only with that assassin to complete the HoM with a single character? There is no way around it. Shadow Form current functionality must go in PvE. Those that used Ursan before adapted. Those that use Shadow Form will adapt too. When they made changes like the Ursan one I though: "Great, now the skill is the same regardless of profession, and can't be overused, yet is not really useless". But what can I think about Shadow Form staying like that for so long?. Well, what I think is: "The person or persons responsible of the decision of changes to Shadow Form won't allow it to be changed because they/he/she are also Shadow Form farmers, and will design the game for that gameplay style". That the only logical explanation I can think of as of now. I can't think any other reason for this to go on. MithTalk 23:20, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

I went from looking forward to doing this quest on 10 characters with a friend and 6 heroes, to doubting I'll ever get to see Dhuum personally. I have a few GW friends, but few that want to/can spend 3 hours doing UW the normal way. And the few who may be willing to try are the type that insist on bringing as many humans as possible, which means someone will d/c, or have to leave, or go afk for an hour, or just be hopeless. Please add henchmen to elite areas so I and others can enjoy these areas of the game fully. Manifold 00:01, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

That won't solve much. It would be better if progress was saved, so if something happens, the same team (or any other team that has the same completed objectives) can go back there an continue from the last step. MithTalk 00:50, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

"It's no longer a speed clear"

The AAAAAAMoMo group that beat it in less than an hour (probably less than half) disagrees with you.

And I based that on thinking the update came out when someone told me it did instead of when it really did. I'm still kind of disappointed that Shadow Form is the new "Ursan or don't play", except that only one class can do it. ~Shard 01:17, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

This was a completely predictable thing, we actually had bets going on in my guild whether Arenanet would actually fix the problem... when Arenanet decided to hit the zone instead of the Perma skills I think I won myself a good 50-75K Let's face it, Arenanet doesn't see Permas as a true issue. All that time... all the developer time and resources they put into this whole UW issue... to what... take the average UWSC time from 15 to 30 minutes, to 45 minutes (I've heard the whole 30 minute rumor myself)?

ohhhh, I was told to look at Regina's journal. Interesting. Time will tell. ~~000.00.00.00~~ 01:51, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

yah i just shat brix --ilr 02:30, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Feedback Concerns

I just want to say I agree with the OP. Thanks for all the new content that caters specifically to a broken game mechanic (permanent invincibility). Congratulations, I am ABSOLUTELY not buying GW2, nor any other NCSoft game in the future. You've all made it perfectly clear you're completely incapable of providing your customer base with a balanced, playable game. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:173.79.39.237 (talk).

I've read the journal entry, and it's good to know that you're planning on dealing with shadow form, but are there any plans to make the underworld (or other high-end areas) accessible to a wider variety of team compositions (including team with post-Shadow Form nerf assassins)? -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 09:41, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

"I said it countless times.". I think that really is all you need to say. You've said it all countless times, but they have chosen to do something different, so, get over it, stop beating a dead horse. Arena Net has made their decision on how they wish to handle this and these continued topics bitching about it is seemingly not going to change their decision. If you have suggestions on how you would like to see it changed, then make those suggestions in the appropriate feedback area. Or, contribute to the ongoing discussions regarding the FIFTEEN (15) existing suggestions for SF. Coming here and bitching at Linsey is really not productive. -- Wyn talk 10:39, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

TBH Wyn, I think that given the seriousness of the issue, the lack of results, and the ineffectiveness of the feedback space, people were going to come here anyway, it's the most direct way ( as many see it ) to let Lin know what's going on. -- Tha Reckoning 16:03, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

or you know, you could see this wasn't meant to fix SF, but the next skill balance (all being well) will. ~ PheNaxKian 18:02, 21 November 2009

Most of the bitching above came before Regina's journal update. (Satanael | talk) 18:17, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

And there's a difference between saying something and actually doing it. In the past taking anything Arenanet has said had to be taken with a grain of salt, and I'm sure Linsey and Regina are painfully aware of this. ~~000.00.00.00~~ 19:11, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

It's that whole "we don't wanna announce anything before it's final" issue. Which is fine for a new(ish) game that hasn't found a niche yet... but kinda pointless when ya look at where this game is at. --ilr 20:23, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

"the ineffectiveness of the feedback space", you need to backup that statement, since you have absolutely no clue if the feedback space is effective or not, given the few updates that have occurred since it opened, unless of course you expect the suggestions to be acted upon instantaneously after you have posted them. Several have already been removed by the posters because issues have been addressed by updates. -- Wyn talk 22:34, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

But you have proof to the contrary? Just because they've addressed some of the OVERWHELMING issues, which have been talked about on the forums, here, and in-game doesn't prove that they addressed them because of the feedback space. We have almost no evidence that they actually read them, and tbh, I'd doubt they read many of them (unless someone links it on their talkpage). Considering that they keep talking about how they have no free time, it just doesn't seem reasonable to expect them to even read them....which makes them ineffective. Karate Jesus 22:48, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

I have read a good deal of the feedback and I know Robert has as least read pretty much every single bit of skill and balance feedback recently because he and James are heading up the next skill balance. - Linsey talk 23:06, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

It was more a statement of my own opinion than almighty fact. I put some ideas up there to go with the flow, but I feel the feedback space was more of a symbol to help the populace feel that things are actually being done to address the situation, but I've come to have a more pessimistic view than most, you certainly don't have to believe it at all, cause Linsey just said there that they do acknowledge it. It's all in what you want to believe. I'm more of a " I'll believe that when I see it" type of person, so that's my stance, I wasn't assaulting the feedback space or anything, Wyn. I was just stating reasons that people are more likely to come here, because they're more apt to get a response from Linsey. -- Tha Reckoning 01:45, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

The simple fact is that Linsey has repeatedly stated that they DO in fact read the feedback/suggestions, whether they have time to comment on them or not. She has said this over and over and over, so while that is true, I will continue to request people take their ideas, comments and suggestions there rather than exploding Linsey's page with this repetitive stuff. Don't be part of the problem, be part of the solution. -- Wyn talk 01:52, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

(Reset indent) If disagreeing with someone's statements that you regard as true, without any proof of it, is being part of the problem, then I'm afraid I will always be a part of the problem. I agree that the page shouldn't be bloated with things like this, but it's irrational to think that it will ever happen short of you banning every person to suggest anything here. -- Tha Reckoning 01:56, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Disagreeing with someone's statements when you or both of you are wrong is wrong. For example, if P1 states "Arenanet's last update was intended to fix SF," and P2 objects, "On the contrary, Arenanet doesn't want to fix SF," then when the truth is "The last update wasn't a fix but a fix is coming", P2 can't say "Well, I was just saying the opposite of P1."

And to say, as some have above, that Arenanet's "record" is not living up to what they promise, is absurd. You show me such a tendency and I'll go down on you. Oh, and by the way, when the reality contradicts your own opinion instead of almighty fact, it doesn't count as a transgression. | 72 (U|T|C) 02:24, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

If you're referring to the conversation between Wyn and I, you missed the point of it, we weren't talking about anything near what you claim, I already knew that this update had nothing to do with SF, having visited Regina's Journal. Also, this is a public wiki, and we don't need you to "go down" on anybody. -- Tha Reckoning 02:47, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Reference-catch fail. But okay, I missed the point, agreed. Sad that yet another response not suitable for this page should go on this page. It seems to imply that I or people don't know better, eh? :/ | 72 (U|T|C) 02:52, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

There is no reason to continue this discussion; Regina and Linsey have both addressed all of the concerns we've brought up. Aevar talk contribs 09:53, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaah! BlazeRick 20:21, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

"have both addressed all of the concerns we've brought up...brought up on the derailed part of this topic" -- fix't ...there's still gonna be the issue of making UW playable for "balanced teams" in the future. It doesn't have to happen over night, but there's no harm in them atleast commenting on it sometime before the year's over... --ilr 23:53, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

It is playable for balanced teams currently. It's just that everyone uses SF and not balanced. Regina addressed our concerns about SF (read Regina's journal). We'll all just have to wait and see. Aevar talk contribs 05:13, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Problem with uw is that it contains big homogenous mobs (e.g. 8 monks, 9 mesmers, 5 warriors). There is absolutely no diversity required for balanced play. --Boro 13:57, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Miniature Smite Crawler

thanks for fullfilling my dream, ever since i did uw the first time, i wanted a miniature smite crawler. <3 - Wuhy 13:31, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Me too ♥ –Jette 14:44, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Still dont have one but I am gone get one later, I will first let the uwscers farm it alot and then buy it for cheap ++ Death Sligher 17:18, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Amazing job Linsey!! Dhuum is beautifull designed (on a Dhuumed way of course) and also the new rewards are great =) 's for you and the team! -- Cyan 18:54, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

PIX PL0X!! --ilr 00:07, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

I hope to go down with my guild again soon, I loved the new monsters and set-up of the Underworld, but died in the Bone Pits on the last attempt. Miniature Smite Crawler would be nice to get, I need mini's for some of my characters to carry around with them.--Orry 16:02, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Linsey Great Work!!

I am a recurring player, and I do not think you get enough kudos for the handling of the Rit/Paragon PvE skill rework. I know it has been a few months since. Overall I was very impressed with the changes. Also the improvement of pet usage was pretty neato! I play the Assasin class as well, but in PvE outside of Shadow form farming they do very poorly in parties, I understand that they are a glass cannon-type profession, but usually their attack chains rarely if ever get used to their full potential, and could use some shadow transportation improvements (faster cycle, less damage/heal). As for the dervish player (I'm not one) I feel that they could use a look into as well. Looking at the Avatar skills, some are pretty useless, and they were a selling point for the profession when GW:Nightfall was released, now they are just meh. Which to me is a shame when the artwork on the player model for them were very nice to look at, other Dervish things could be addressed, but I'm not familiar with the profession, so i will let other people chime in. Well Thanks for your time, I'm finished so discuss =) ~Valen Spiritbinder --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Valen Spiritbinder (talk).

bad and slow work that still sais to use boring ways of doin it 128.176.178.20 13:57, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

I would disagree, in that I guarantee it could be proven that the Motivation & Spear attributes are STILL weaker than Dervish and Assassin primaries (PvE wise), even without Shadowform being factored in. And they're definitely situationally weaker under a lot more situations than Dervishes and Assassins are; who, always have 4 pips of energy regen regardless of party size...no exceptions. For example, Wyn and I butt heads all the time, but we both agree that our Primary Dervishes are versatile enough to accomplish all the things in this game (with enough time invested in them) that a casual player might really want to do... including some things they wouldn't do (such as getting HM Masters on Thirsty River). But I do agree that the Changes to Command & Spirit skills were definitely impressive and have improved atleast a dozen QoL issues for me personally. --ilr 00:06, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

As a PvE Assassin, I recommend you look into Death Blossom, Moebius Strike and Critical Agility, filling in the blanks with skills of your preference. I use my own build based around that since forever and find it fun and effective. The rest is up to the PUG mentality. Personally, I don't pug, and my guild knows they can rely on me. — Poki#3 (talk) 15:55, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

I have to strongly agree at least with regard to ritualists. I'm primarily a pve player, and I had tried to make a rit years ago but just couldn't get into it, and ended up sticking with my MM. I just recently made one and am having a blast spirit spamming my way through.

As for ILR's comments, I'm not really sure that comparing rits and paras to sins and dervs is a fair camparison. I mean, those classes were intended to fill entirely different roles, you're not comparing apples to apples. If you want to talk about the comparisons that can be made between dervs, wars and sins, or rits to monks or eles that could work, but dervs to paras or rits to sins doesn't work, they have different purposes/roles. (Satanael | talk) 18:15, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

You have fun watching spirits play? -- Tha Reckoning 18:21, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

Yes I do like spirit spamming. I also like MMing. (Satanael | talk) 18:30, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

As a PvE assassin, you have absolutely no excuse for not using shadow form. NuVII 20:34, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

SF is (in my opinion) the easy way out. If/When they decide to do something with the Perma SF builds, what will you fall back on?? Moebius/DB will be the only thing left, how long will it take people to tire of that bar? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Valen Spiritbinder (talk • contribs) at 05:14, 22 November 2009 (UTC).

"Get tired"? I'm not tired, and the only other elite I used was Assassin's Promise during the times of BoA sins. I only listed 3 skills, the rest is very variable. You can change those out of boredom, preference, need or buffs. My current build is on its 7th iteration. Besides, you could pretty much use the same statement on anything that's "meta". — Poki#3 (talk) 04:10, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Yeah I can understand where most people have trouble visualizing "Utility" and thus comparing those seemingly different roles directly. But the fact remains that everything must come down to Damage Mitigation over Time. And the ease at which you eliminate threats or utilize a seres of triggered events to improve survival; is still much simpler and more reliable through Assn & Derv primaries than through the vast majority of Spear & Motivation skills. If I ever get around to the arduous task of making a feedback page for it, I'll be sure to include those corresponding mathematic relationships... --ilr 20:41, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Drunkard title

As a pure PvE player who is desperately trying to put off having to do his vanquisher titles, I've started looking into the dreaded "cash" titles. There's precedent in the recent past that if something proves to be so painfully broken and/or braindead that it actively encourages widespread botting even outside the cancerous RMT community that, not only would it be nerfed, but the issues that made it so broken would be addressed as well. I'm obviously referring to the old HFFF which resulted in the heavy revamping of Kurzick/Luxon faction earnings. Is there any possibility of a similar examination of the Drunkard title in the future? 10,000 minutes (heck, even 30 minutes) is a long time to do nothing other than double-click once every 1 or 3 minutes. It just begs "set up an autoclicker and do something fun instead." Obviously, I've not done this (Please check before assuming I'm lying. None of my chars have more than 10 points in the track. I like my account and want to keep it!), or I wouldn't have bothered to bring it up. Targren 07:00, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Please go to Feedback:Getting started if you wish to submit suggestions for changes. this is not the place for it. You might also want to take a look at Feedback:User/Shayne Hawke/Drunkard Title Progression and possibly join the discussion there. -- Wyn talk 07:23, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

"Is there any possibility of a similar examination of the Drunkard title in the future?" Seems pretty cut and dry... --ilr 08:03, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Wait until you get to 7,675 mins like where I am...then you will really hate all the clicking you have left to do.--*Yasmin Parvaneh* 08:05, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Drink booze while abusing PvE skills. –Jette 08:08, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

@wyn that is a question not a suggestion learn to tell the deference.- Zesbeer 11:11, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Afraid they're right. I knew it had been suggested. A long time ago, I believe. I was asking if they had taken it into consideration, and gave what I thought was a reasoned explanation as to why I care about it. Targren 12:27, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Given that it's been suggested, over and over and over and over, and Linsey's response to every question about making it account based, or otherwise adjusting titles has been NO, I'm quite sure it's been taken into consideration, so it's really a pointless question. The fact you are pointing out why it should be changed lends itself more to a suggestion than a simple question. -- Wyn talk 18:26, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Linsey said back in August that making Drunkard not suck to get is on her To Do list, though how and when are two of the great mysteries of our time. - Tanetris 19:39, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

That, and Lin never really explained publicly WHY or WHAT metrics were used to determine such an arbitrarily high grind-target. For all we know she just "ball-parks" it as fair from a personal perspective (which is fine too I guess) but no indicators were given about considering these other important factors such as "Is it leading an increase in BOTTING?" ...or... "Is it in line with other Grind-Design changes recent to Faction & PvE-Ranks?" ...or... "are there any other methods to take bigger bites out of this title like there is with Rep-Books"? -- See the main problem with arbitrarily high numbers is that a lack of justification for them makes most people just assume that it wouldn't really matter if that number were to be lowered. --ilr 23:34, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Smiter's Boon and Codex Arena

Ok, I dont know if this is the right place for this, but here goes (: Seeing as the skills for CA is randomly selected, wont there be a chance that Smiter's boon will pop up? If yes, well then I strongly recommend that it gets fixed quick, as you, ArenaNet, essentially have put it out of play. Therefore, if it does get selected, monks will that day have one less skill to choose from. Hope you understand what I mean =) -Mikkelet 13:41, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

I think every profession has a number of skills practically useless for 4v4 unpredictable PvP, which are all capable of showing up. | 72 (U|T|C) 13:56, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Yea useless, but not essentially taken out of PvP on purpose. That's the problem :/ -Mikkelet 18:25, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Same difference, really, useless = taken out of pvp on purpose. -- Tha Reckoning 18:27, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

COUGH COUGH USELESS. NuVII 19:25, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

How about doing something like making Smiter's Boon just give +2 to Smiting Prayers or something like that, don't bother balancing a skill that is inherantly imbalanced, change it into something that is. I know skill's functionality has been changed before, like when they changed all those elites to make them more used. So why even have to fiddle with numbers? Just change it to something that does work. I know it probably isn't easy, but changing skills that can't be balanced properly so they make sense seems a lot better than nerfing them into uselessness.--142.68.130.194 21:10, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

smiter's boon can and could have been balanced but anet decided to be lazy. it should have been 1.5 times the divine favor bonus instead of 2 times. on a hole i think there are certain skills that if they come up other skills need to come up like a minion needs to be a staple of necros and a spirit, item, and weapon spell for rits. but as a hole codex needs a major change in that it needs to change skill sets every 2 days and allow for double the amount of skills offered right now.- Zesbeer 22:38, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

No, so stop saying stupid things. Pika Fan 07:17, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

But...but....if they fix Smiter's Boon, then the saying "lol Smiter's Boon'd" wouldn't make sense. Plus terribly destroying skills is Anet's specialty. Karate Jesus 00:00, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

/*recommends moving this suggestion to* --> Feedback_talk:Game_updates/20091022 --ilr 00:43, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Smiting has always been completely imbalanced when it's in the meta. Killing smiter's boon and smite heroes was one of the few bright spots in PvP updates this year. Zen` 06:34, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Feedback Space Question

I noticed, Linsey, that you did say that you and Robert do read the suggestions in the feedback space, and I'm sure you do. The problem is, there's no way for someone to know if a particular suggestion in the space has been read by you guys or not. There's only your overly generic answer that many of them have been looked at, an answer that isn't really an answer at all. I think you guys have forgotten what it's like to be on our end, always in the dark and not knowing whether or not we're really being heard or just placated. If you could just implement some kind of checkbox system in the feedback space, as has been suggested before, where you can check off the suggestions you've looked at so we know which ones have been looked at and which ones haven't, it would be a step in the right direction. Be more open with us. I understand you can't comment on them all and I don't expect you to. But at least that little checkbox indicator would let us know - and would definitively show - that the suggestions are being looked at. --Nathe 18:06, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

The feedback space was made with the features it has so Anet staff wouldn't have to check off all the ones they've read. Why do you need to know which suggestions Anet has read? What if an anet staffer read a suggestion they know nothing about (like if Linsey read a coding suggestion)? Would she mark it as read without knowing whether or not she can even use it? ~Shard 18:35, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

We've so been through this. You have to just Assume Good Faith that stuff is getting read. To have some marked read and others not will only cause more drama when people come here crying "Why haven't you read mine, but you've read theirs?" We purposefully did not add any sort of "checkbox system" and you know that, because you were part of the discussion. I don't see the decision changing any time soon. -- Wyn talk 18:39, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Not good enough, Wyn. Anet's word doesn't carry any weight at all of late, what with how many things have been screwed up - as many veteran players will attest - and their continual silence and overall lack of communication. We need them to do something to prove that the feedback space isn't just a means to placate us. Prove they've been read - words are not enough. Only action will convey the appropriate message now. And when I say a checklist system, I mean that the suggestions would be read by the appropriate person, not someone unsuited for the role. And only to indicate that it had been looked at, not that it was going to be used or not. Nothing more. Why do you automatically think otherwise? If the feedback space truly is being read by staff, then leave comments on some of the suggestions to indicate as such. Don't just leave us in the dark. That is no way to treat your playerbase. Show us respect, not disdain. And do it through your actions, not pretty words. No more responses that say nothing. No more blanket assurances. Only actions are acceptable now. --Nathe 20:50, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

On the other hand, we could give them some credit (menagerie, stylist, storage, ...) :p. And on the leaving comments thing: they are quite bussy I think (designing new stuff: Dhuum for example, and reading the walls of text on their talkpages). By the way, This wasn't meant as an attack on you ;). Just saying, it all adds up in the end --Ellisia 21:02, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Not to burst your bubble kiddo, but feedback namespace is all about placating us. Anet has better things to do than to listen to half-asses suggestions from people who don't give a crap anyway. NuVII 21:15, 23 November 2009 (UTC)