User:Saphatorael

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WALL OF TEXT INCOMING HURR DURR

In case you're just lurking... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlYZOSJVoSU The comments are the most important part, really.

... And then I got a few PM's.

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Pm from Konig.

Because I have no need nor want to reply on your video anymore - and I don't care if you post this onto the video - I just have two things to say.

First, get over it. Honestly, who cares who is right and who is wrong.

Second, you cannot disprove an opinion, so you asked me to do the impossible. And I even said that the argument is as pointless as saying "my religion is better than yours" which, in other words means, there is no winning and no losing in this argument. No proving right and wrong.

So enough, Tender said she'll take her video down if you take yours. I personally do not care, but your video is even more flame worthy and Tender's, and it has even brought worthless trolls to our guild forum.

As a request and nothing more, please take down your video. I tried to stay neutral on this, but that became impossible. Yes, Tender has done some wrong, but everyone does. We all are human.

~Konig

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My reply.

This isn't a matter of who is right and who is wrong. I just want Tender Wolf to take down her video first, since that is the one that started it all. Even then, I cannot promise to take it down, simply because even if she would take hers down, my own reputation has been irreparably damaged by her crude remarks (and blatant lies) on her own forums.

In all honesty, I will say that the only thing I have really done, is put up my video, and comment on it. Anything that "slanders" her (as she so eloquently put it), was not my doing, nor my idea. I'm not a hateful person, but I am a critic. When I see social behaviour, I try to see the reasons why the people are doing what they are doing (Yes, I study social sciences, hence this entire discussion has kept my interest).

I do not disagree with her opinion at all, everybody has a right to complain (thus so do I). But I DO have a problem with her actions. Making a 6 minute rant, where she one-sidedly insults a few people who only did their job as they saw best, and then deleting any comments who disagrees with her? I could write 2 pages full of how Tender's mind works from a sociological point of view, but it would just be a waste of time and energy, and not solve anything.

Also, I'm not trying to disprove her opinion, I just wanted to point out the tremendous hypocrisy in Tender's behaviour. She complains about being censored, yet she censors her own youtube video's comments, in an even more authoritarian way than the guru mods do. Heck, it isn't even an authoritarian regime, it is a totalitarian regime, she wants total control over what is said about her, and apparently the fact that my own video's comments are against her (since she has no powerful position there, as opposed to her own vid or forum), bothers her as well, even to the point of complaining about it... on her own forums, where she is once again the only one who can manipulate posts at will. But, I'm straying off into sociological theories again...

Anyone disagreeing with her rant, has seen his/her comment deleted and will never see anything else added there again unless it is in Tender's favour. At least the guru mods allow dissenting opinions, yet they have to draw the line when some trolls join in. I suppose that means collateral damage, yes, but if the thread has been seen and can still be seen (albeit locked), then the thread can still do what it's supposed to do: tell people about what Tender asks/wants to do.

I did not pick the guru side in Tender's personal war. The guru population sided with my critique. Once more I could point out to a few theories as to how she is setting up "her community" against me and Unlucky Slayer, making her a worse person than I am, since I only made this vid and did nothing else but retort on anyone disagreeing with me, in the video's comments (as opposed to simply deleting them).

Please copy/paste this somewhere in her forums, as I cannot be arsed to register. There will be 2 possible outcomes: She either lets it stay, which may make me consider to remove my video, as she has finally seen the irony in her behaviour, finally accepting that the guru mods were in their right to lock the debated threads, or... She deletes the post, in which case I will let the video stay, as my criticisms of her hypocrisy have been ultimately justified, and she deserves (in my opinion) nothing less than a good internet spanking (though I will not participate in that myself).

There are no middle grounds or compromise possible. She undertook action, I reacted. And to get rid of my video, this will have to be the same course of action.

Greetings,

Saph

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Konig's reply to my reply.

First, you don't have to worry about anything on her own forums. I view them and the whole guild has agreed to drop it - myself excluded for this messaging alone. Second, that was not her wording, but another's - if you read the whole post from that, which I am assuming is from our personal guild forum, you would know that is from a friend, who is not in the guild, who was in defense of her. For you to say that was her, is incorrect and wrong, it was someone in her defense. Not to attack you, but I request that you get them straight.

You say you wanted to point out her hypocrisy regarding her and censorship, when you fail to see the two different kinds of censorship. She never complained about trolls and flames being censored, and as far as I am informed, there were only trolls and flames in her video. Nor has she disagreed with the closing of threads on Guru due to flames and trolls (her thread was a personal thing as many people disagree with bringing that up in the video).

As for the "at least the guru mods allow dissenting opinions" I disagree, a few months ago I started a thread on both GWO and Guru asking people's opinion on something, and the Guru one got deleted while the GWO just died out. I kept an eye on it as much as possible, saw troll posts deleted, but not once was it closed - just deleted out of no where.

Why was the thread deleted? Because the topic went off course and into how moderators are corrupted and whatnot, I saw civil arguments in the thread *refused to join in for sake of not getting on the mod's bad side* and it was deleted without warning. It did not yet get out of hand either.

Next, Tender does not have a "community" - simply friends who know her more than just what is shown via video and a couple threads.

As I cannot agree with the complete grounds of hypocracy - nor am I going to defend Tender completely anymore, as I first tried to - I will not go further against the decision to "drop it" by posting this in one of the forums she goes to (her own or the guilds). I may message her about it though, in order to refrain from the disappointment of my friends and guild members.

I also noticed, after sending this message, you asked the purpose behind knowing your GW name or Guru name - you thought it was connected to your age, wrong. It is to see if you are a person I know who trolls a lot. I can tell that you can in fact put thought behind your messages, unlike some people in your video, but you clearly do not look at things fully.

That is not an insult, and I am not putting any hostility into what I type (although I am told that things I say and type sound hostile or "dickish"). I do not care what you think of me, or others, but what I do care is for facts to be straight - and everything I have said and done has been based on what I know, so if you can enlighten me on something I do not know (such as the possibility of non-trolls in Tender's video that got deleted) then please, enlighten me.

Also, there is only one forum Tender has the ability to delete (the one you found and shared is moderated not by Tender, but by out Guild Leader).

As for the no compensation, there is always a compensation. I can, however, try to convince Tender to remove her video instead of having it to private (which was done due mainly to the Guru mod flaming her)

~Konig

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My reply to Konig's reply on my reply.

In actuality, one of the responses was by me, very similar to my first response in our PM conversation. Any form of disagreeing with her is apparently seen as a flaming or trolling in her book. You yourself cannot know these facts either, as Tender has already effectively deleted them. Sure, I may not know all the facts, but you do not either. But what you did not know, proves your arguments faulty, when what you know that I don't, is hardly relevant. Even if it wasn't Tender herself who made the posts in her own forums, it remains a fact that me and Unlucky Slayer were being targeted. The 'not looking at things fully' argument is a pretty weak argument who works in neither of our favours, by the way, but let's not turn this into a philosophical discussion here. Both our opinions were formed simply because we are both biased. I just see my opinion as a critique, whereas others see me as a flamer (even the people who "support" me).

As for your own experiences, again this is something you should talk about with the guru mods. Usually they discuss on irc wether it is still a wise idea to keep a thread going or not. The extent to which a thread gets treated, is largely subjective, yes, but each mod has her/her own views and reasons, which may lead to some inconsistencies in their doings, but in general it's or the greater good of the community. And if things haven't gotten out of hand when a thread gets deleted, then they deleted it before it could get out of hand in the first place.

But I'm not here to defend guru mods.

And yes, there is definitely more than a social aggregate around Tender. Going as far as calling them a 'group' or 'community' can strike people as a very strong word for it, but in purely sociological terms, it is a correct one, and I've seen relevant traits in their behaviour.

I'm starting to fear it is too late to let it slide just like that, but in essence, it's up to Tender & co., then to my evaluation of what she actually does. But I will not take the first step, that is something I leave entirely up to her (and her friends as well, in the meantime)